OK, things have been changing rapidly over the last month or so. The latest changes have included formations, Inquisition mini codex, and now Super heavies and more Fortifications. Now a lot of people are mulling this over and I am certainly one of them. I have always tried to take the stance of play to have fun and the more options are better. But the latest releases have seen the FoC circumvented significantly with Inq and Formations, and the balance shifted with D weapons in Escalation and Stronghold. I will admit that D weapons are a bit much and I don't know whether they were really needed. A while back when rumors were coming around that IG might get a baneblade, I took the stance against this, saying it was not necessary and superheavies should stay in Apoc where they belong. Well they are here to stay now. What are you going to do?
Well In terms of the game, these supplements are going to change the game in some degree or another. How much will as always depend on the people that play the game. What are you going to do? Will you be bringing large fortification networks, baneblades? You can now and I will not stop anyone that wants too. I might sigh and groan when someone drops a baneblade, but I'll deal with it and try and win regardless. You can decide to not play against superheavies, or the new fortifications, or both. I caution against this, as this is choice and like it or not, it no longer is a "hey can I bring it" thing. Now for me personally, I would tell someone if I was bringing a baneblade and let them modify their list to deal with. They are just those kinds of monsters that you do have to be able to deal with them in different ways than normal units.
Does this break the game though? For comp or fun? Right now my answer is no, no, and no. For fun, the choice is always yours and I'll admit that I don't want to fight a revenant titan, and if someone wanted to use it I would only ask that he would let me tweak my list to better deal with it. Now did this "break" the game, hardly as many already no 40k is not balanced on a knife edge of perfect balance. Its just another choice, and a risky one with all the potential victory points to give up. And the ignored dark horse of Stronghold Assault does a great job in my opinion of countering these monsters and are a far greater bang for buck.
I picked up stronghold and got a real good look through escalation and here is what struck me: Fortifications are cheap and awesome, compared to superheavies. Oh the damage output of them can be tremendous, but compared to what you can get in fortifications, you can cheaply counter that 900 pt revenant with 200+ points from fortifications. The big thing is the void shield generator. At 50 pts it is an AV13 building(impassable) that produces a void shield at AV12. Important to note this will neutralize any hit of a D weapon and collapses the shield. For all other weapons, roll to pen as normal, glance or pen collapses a shield. You can get up to 3 shields for each generator bringing it up to 100pts, and up to 3 in a special shield fortification choice that includes a new pipeline choice as well. So 300 pts for 9 void shields with a 12" bubble, plus the minimum for the pipeline which is about 40 pts. Oh and the shields that are dropped come back at the end of the turn on a 5+.
That is a massive defense bonus that is half the cost of the cheapest super heavy and reduces the fire coming at your army tremendously. Now if your opponent does bring that revenant, well its 900 points and at 1850 means he does not have a large force backing it up. You now have 9 void shields to hide behind. He is going to have to bring all of them down in order to get those Titan D blasts into you. Does he even have the high strength weapons to even do this. The answer in this case is going to be prob not. So he may bring down a couple with his armies shooting, then the titan fires and if he was lucky, one D blast may get through. Then you get to regenerate your shields and return fire. In this case, you have a full army to shoot back since you only have 300+ points invested in your big play, where your opponent has half his army.
Now against a "normal" army lets look at this as well. So you are facing some TauDar with a riptide or two/wraithknight, broadsides, the commander, and the other minimum requirements. Well those missiles on the broad sides are S7 and S5 respectively. So those SMS are now useless, you have reduced half of your opponents fire, just like that. So he fires all of his missiles at S7, he still needs 5s and 6s(note he will still target a unit normally, if they are within the bubble of the shields the shields take the hit till they are all gone, the remainder of shots hit the unit). With 6 broadsides at normal bs you are going to get 4.5 pens and glances, there are still half of your shields left. Now with markerlight bonuses they are going to be hitting on 2s most likely and with tank hunters that will be enough to maybe collapse the shields. But think how much firepower it took to just get through that. Now all he has left is a riptide and a wraithknight, and there are good chances he will still have to bring down a few void shields. Powerful but an OP alpha strike they are not. That's also if they go first.
Oh and when you get into double force org territory you can bring 6 shield generators. Hmm, you know what, this is starting to sound way more OP than a 900 pt titan with 4 D weapons. For a little over half the price you have 18 void shields. So yeah some one is trolling with his revenant, let him challenge you, just keep it 2000+ pts and play by the rules and bring 6 void shield generators, be sure to let him know its about 2/3s of what his titan costs, double force org is by the rules as much as escalation and if he gets poo poo faced well fuck him. So if you are really worried about facing the monsters, you really have very little to worry. Your answer is there and it will also be useful against everything else.
Now if you are a guard player, what to take? I love my Aegis and have been using it since the beginning of 6th. Now there is so much to take though. The Wall of Martyrs has rules finally, had the bastards released it with rules when it came out in its special box I would have damn sure bought it all. Now the one that sticks out is the Bunker, it is effectively the same as the Bastion, but only 55 points. It has two fire points which can have 4 shoot out of each, it can get all the weapon emplacement upgrades. Plus there are the additional upgrades in the fortification book now. Its broken down into building upgrades, obstacles, and battlements and emplacements. I will go through them all later but there are awesome options here. Void shields are included though they do not project the 12" bubble, only act as an additional layer to the bunker.
The wall of martyrs (trench lines) all add stubborn to units inside of them which is not a bad thing at all, no need to add any commissars or anything to make them stand fast. Other than that since they are double sided the big advantage being you don't have to worry about barrage dropping behind like you do your aegis. They cost more than the aegis but have advantages it doesn't. If you have a guardsmen infantry gun line, I would recommend the Wall of Martyrs defense network and there is your corner stone. You can add the vengeance weapons and firestorm redoubts to them if needed. The other thing is the vengeance can take the quad Icarus, and there is an upgrade that makes it BS 3 instead of 2, so if you are looking for AA, not a bad choice there.
If you are IG and play any number of infantry, you should be looking at this book and singing thanks to the gods for it. Void shields just are awesome and are an answer to Tau markerlights, they aren't cover so they have to drop the shields to get through, meaning they will be using their heavy fire power to drop them, leaving only pulse rifles to hurt your guardsmen.
I will do a full review of this book as it is really a huge boon to guard. And it honestly keeps the D weapons in check. This is going to change the game far more than escalation. Its just too cost effective not to, since many already have parts of these. Since Void generators don't have model, you can make your own! In terms of real and in game cost, its just hard to beat. Please do not fret over escalation, stronghold assault is the true king to be feared!
GG
Hmmm you have got me interested. The stronghold assault looks like you can have a lot of fun with it. Not quite sold on the other book yet though. I eagerly await your next post on the matter. I have never used fortifications of any kind so it will be a cool experience i guess.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't really want to play with a baneblade, don't bother with the escalation. It has some great artwork, but Im sure a certain bay will have it shortly if that is what you like. There are a lot of fortifications and a huge amount of options, I would recommend it, but the hardback is way better, has all the artwork and is just a better product for your money.
DeleteWow nice article. Do you think taking a full Wall of Martyrs - Tempestus Firebase is a good idea? That kit looks so sexy, but it is so expensive.
ReplyDeleteRight now you can't take the firebase as is, you'll have to wait for the data slate for it that is sure to come. In stronghold you can take the macro cannon strongpoint, but you can't add on too it yet
DeleteI have recently bought the tempestus to use as the core of the imperial defense network, completing it with the missing pieces from GW. This should allow me to use it at appropriate point levels. I have also had an idea to use the bases of the vengeance batteries as the shield generator model, which leaves me to rig up something for the pipelines. I foresee a trip to my local wal-mart or lowes. Stronghold coupled with inquisitors and henchmen promises to be of immense use in my local group's meta, and I'd swear that there's some fun scenarios that could be devised with them.
Delete"Now if you are a guard player, what to take?"
ReplyDeleteAnd what about taking our own Super-Heavies?
I think there is some interesting things to do with a Stormlord with a 40wound blob inside it with Assault capacity ^^.
Not a bad call, I have always liked the idea of a stormlord. The plasma baneblade is my favorite but sadly its not included in escalation :(
DeleteI have to say I'm also a fan of the stormlord (if I'm thinking of the right one?) 40 model capacity and 20 fire points, plus assault. although it lacks major punch, only heavy 15 s6 ap3, well plus sponsons.
ReplyDeleteIt gets heavy 30 s6 ap3 if you don't move though
DeleteOnly, I like that. Daniil is right, if it stays still it gets 30 shots, which it can shoot at two different targets.
Deleteits defiantly not to be laughed at, it'll but down MEQ's no bother but its not gonna do much damage against armour or other superheavies. what's the points cost anyway?
ReplyDelete480 base, you can add more if you want
DeleteIt is even better for the Eldar. You can keep your Serpents naked, fire your serpent shield, and feel comfortably under cover. Also, if those shields become mainstream, Eldar have a lot of good weapons to shut them down, the Wraithknight cannons for example, while the Tau are a bit lacking- they have their railguns, but they are not the ultimate build for the broadside. Riptides with Tau melta should get close , and then can be assaulted.
ReplyDeleteAlso , the Tau have some obviously weak points; their Markerlight. Surviving first turn of shooting means you can annihiliate the markerlights and then hamper the Tau greatly.
BTW how does the shield work with the Heldrake?
So i think, those shields will best work for the glass cannon, longe- range armies, such as the Eldar. M
Each projected void shield has a 12" area of effect (measured from any point on the Void Shield Generator building), known as a Void Shield Zone. Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield. If a unit is within 12" of more than one Void Shield Generator, and so within more than one Void Shield Zone when it is hit, randomly determine which of the buildings’ projected void shields is hit. Each projected void shield has an Armour Value of 12. A glancing or penetrating hit (or any hit from a Destroyer weapon) scored against a projected void shield causes it to collapse. If all the projected void shields have collapsed, further hits strike the original target instead. At the end of each of the controlling player’s turns, roll a dice for each projected void shield that has collapsed; each roll of 5 + instantly restores one shield.
DeleteHere is the thing, yes they have things to shut the shield down. But thats shooting thats wasted on shields and not your army. Note you still target and fire at units like normal. You can't just target the shield to bring it down. You can try and shoot the building(generator) but then any shots that make it through the shield the have to damage the building AV 13. And serpent shields need 6s to glance the void shield. Heldrakes would be just as affected as long as they are out side the 12" bubble.
also note you have to actually hit the Target in order to even roll to pen against the void shield. So if a blast or large blast weapon misses its target, but still is within the zone, nothing happens to the shield
DeleteSo if you fire a S10 large blast and hit 5 models under the void shield then it has to soak 5 S10 hits? Makes the void shields seem kind of crappy to me.
DeleteThis is based on the fact that by the rules you are shooting at a unit/target under the shield and you need to hit before the void shield rule comes into play. At that point you already have 5 hits under the large blast marker.
Saw your next post here about it:
Deletehttp://cadiascreed40k.blogspot.com/2013/12/review-stronghold-assault.html
Not too really definite either way then.
It comes down to how you read the rules. Its ambiguous (no surprise) and states that any attack that originates from outside the shield and hits a target, instead hits the shield.
DeleteNow one could infer that since it instead hits the shield that is only one attack, or that it gets the 5 like you said. It makes sense that one missile(shot) is only going to get one roll against the shield, but as usual it is left to interpretation. Now the reason I say its one attack is that its states target, not model, that is key as if it was model I would agree 100% and say yep its get attacks against the shield for every hit with a blast weapon. But since it says target, that leaves it to lean in the direction that a blast weapon only gets one hit on the shield.
It does not say for every target it gets a hit, just that if it hits a target(not model) it hits the shield instead.
Me personally it makes sense that its a one for one hit and I will argue it with anyone as I always see it if a rule is confusing you should assume it to be on the less powerful side.
Your argument makes sense. The part I get hung up on is to get a hit you already are at 5 hits, then you go backwards and say it only counts as 1 on the shield.
DeleteThink of it as the missile hitting the shield before it actually explodes on the intended target. So if the shield wasn't there it would keep going and do that damage, but the shield hits it first and it just blows up against it.
DeleteSO stacking void shields with your heavies up front to make it harder to hit :) That totally destroys the swarmy nid army, but it's doable.
ReplyDeleteNothing is ever perfect, which is especially true in this editition. No matter what you come up with, there is a hard counter for it, which is why I like 6th so much. Though I would put the void shields back, stack infantry up front with heavies in the overlapping void zones.
Delete