So a lot has been leaked the last few days, looking like someone got a hold of the next white dwarf. It looks to pretty much have all the rules for the new storm troopers as well as Taurox. Now there may be more to see that has been yet to leak. It is time for a dose of reality though, just to make sure we are not getting too many hopes up, even though things are looking to be good so far. So I am going to cover my thoughts on what the Tempestus Militarum codex is going to be, note this is not the main IG book.
Well the short of it is, expect the Inquisition style codex. What do I mean by that? There will be a single HQ choice, most likely just a buffed version of the Tepestus command squad that can be taken on its own. Then there will be the militarum tempestus platoon. That will most likely be an elites choice, similar to inquisition, where if you take Tempestus as primary they count as scoring units. You'll have the dedicated transports and maybe the valkyrie thrown in there if they are feeling generous. That will most likely be it.
Now if you feel that is a money grab and not enough for a codex, good news! Its all looking to be in the white dwarf, so if you want the rules to use it, pick that up instead, its $4. However if you are looking for background and fluff and artwork as well as the rules (me) you have a full mini codex at your disposal. So its really up to you. You don't have to buy it period and GW is at least publishing the rules in white dwarf, or hell you could print it off of the internet, its fucking everywhere already.
The little extras that are missing right now are the little extra wargear tid bits ala relics and warlord traits. For Tempestus I'm expecting the warlord traits to most likely mimic some of the special rules the old storm troopers have (d3 units can infiltrate, reroll deep strike, d3 units scout) things along that line as well some other new ones for sure. Wargear will be interesting, but most likely there will be some special gun, armor, standard, maybe even a vox, another gun or armor. The relic wargear is something I am really interested to see how they do, I don't see anything too crazy but I could see a special standard as well as some sort of super carapace armor as well as amped up hotshot.
Now orders are the other thing, its rumored Tempestus is supposed to have 6 of its own, with first rank fire being one of them. Now this is a rumor and nothing has been actually seen yet so I'm hesitant to say for certain. Personally I see little changing in the orders themselves, but I could see the orders mechanic being tweaked a little, as well as 'special' orders being added, one use orders similar to how tau have one use powers and such. I'm more thinking order's like creeds becoming available to other officers, but only one use only. Don't really expect anything to crazy from what we have already seen, I doubt GW is doing an over hall of orders completely, just based off of the last few codex's. The one thing that is rumored is first rank fire working with Hot Shot's. If this is true, that actually is pretty huge, even if the range of hot shots are not changed. Now lets wait and see as its not confirmed and it seems like one of those too good to be true moments, I'm sure many remember all those amazing rumors about tyranids before they dropped.
So in summary, Tempestus is going to be a Command Squad and Scions with transports and maybe valkyrie. Warlord traits will focus on special abilities for the detachment, with most likely a few situationally worthless ones like just about every warlord table. Also wargear will have the usual special close combat weapon, gun, armor and standard plus a few other minor things. Orders are going to be similar if not almost exactly the same, with most likely a few special ones for the detachment commander/warlord. So if you were expecting Tempestus to have a bunch of IG units in them, your setting yourself up for disappointment so start getting over it now. I am personally liking the way tempestus is looking, though I will pick up the white dwarf before I decide on grabbing the codex, as it will most likely only have the warlord and special wargear in it. See if the codex is worth picking up in its own right. Now this is not the main IG book so no word exactly what effect Tempestus is going to have on them. Based off what we have heard and seen so far, its looking to be pretty decent, whether you like all of the models or not.
GG
I was already thinking all that and kinda planning on them becoming (with Inquisitorial support) my main army. Inquisitorial Stormtroopers!
ReplyDeleteMe too, time for my inquisitorial task force
DeleteBased on the paint, I might also expect Bullgryns to be in the MT codex.
ReplyDeleteUgh! I dunno what to do!
ReplyDeleteSigh...I'll prolly buy it...I'm a sucker like that...
-_-
Especially if they allow Valkyries as dedicated transports...Then I'm sold fer sure.
Its ok, I will too
DeleteWill see in regards to valks, they don't look to be dedicated transports, just based on the released page, but I could see them throwing them into Tempestus as a fast choice, but I'm not holding out on that. Plus you can take IG allies to get access to those, since they are from the same codex you can use them. The limits on transports with allies only goes for other armies, since technichally they are a unit in the codex (per the WD) they should be able to hitch a ride.
I know that we have to wait until we have the full rules of the military tempestus to see the full picture but, according to what i have readed in the WD, my feelings aren't good.
ReplyDeleteRight now the new Taurox cannot compare in any aspect with the old chimera who is better at everything for only 5 more points, and the taurox prime, if well armed, is too expensive and fragile to be taken in account as a reliable method to deliver tempestus squads where needed. The valkyrie or vendetta are more secure and better armed transports for units like the tempestus scions for only a few more points.
And talking about the scions i have to say that they are a subpar unit again IMO, cheaper, but still subpar. The elite troops of the imperial guard doesn't even have a single grenade on any kind, nor can they buy it, only the squad sergeant have frag and krak grenades and wargear options like powerfist at 25 points or power weapons/plasma pistol at 15 points!!!
The scions only have the deep strike and move through cover special rules, a hot shot lasgun and laspistol and that's all for 12 points. The basic squad cost 70 points without upgrades (the sarge cost 22), the same as a space marine tactical squad with better stats, grenades and a load of special rules plus some more depending of the chapter you choose.
As a veteran guard player i think that this is another lost chance for GW to fix the stormtroopers we all love :(
I was kind of surprised as well when I saw the page with the point cost on it. Though we haven't seen the rumored special orders that they might get and that could change them up a bit. Possibly even make the stormtroopers to be really potent.
DeleteI personally welcome the 12pt cost as compared to the 18pt or 17pt for a model cost they had before ( not too sure on the cost here), a full squad @ 130pts sounds better than 185pts. And, their ability to possibly slaughter an entire tac squad in a turn makes the point cost sort of fair to me.
Overall I do agree with your argument though.
I don't agree that Sts are sub par. They got the price decrease they really needed, and along with first rank fire working on hotshots, that goes a huge way to making them work as well as being able to be a platoon.
DeleteI do agree that only the sarge getting grenades is pretty dumb and is going to really hurt a lot, he is going to be getting sniped a lot once people figure out how important it is that he is the only one with grenades. The wargear upgrades are expected, they are brought in line with other codex's so sorry, that was to be expected, no surprise there. Space marines have chapter tactics, but we have orders you are forgetting about, and we haven't seen them yet other than first rank being confirmed and it working on hot shots. The orders go a long way to adding combat effectiveness.
They are by no means an auto take, but they work now and are not the points sink they used to be.
In regards to the Taurox, I agree it is not great, but I see the primes in groups having some utility, having BS4 and decent weapons helps out a lot. Key to remember is that they start on the board turn 1 where vendettas don't plus you are assuming other points cost stay they same, lets be honest the valk and vendetta are going to cost s decent bit more.
All the troopers get both frag and krak, the Tempestor getspistol and CCW and the scions get HS lasguns. So, troopers loose pistols and CCW, which is a shame, as they loose some versitility.
DeleteAlso, yes, FRFSRF does now apply to HS lasguns!! And if i'm reading WD correctly, the Tempestor Prime is a junior officer, so access to FRFSRF, plus the other two as well as 6 new orders that are MT orders only. Also to note, that the normal IG FRFSRF will also apply to HS lasguns.
Also, for the Taurox's the storm bolters / stubbers are only 5pts not 10, as is the dozer blade and smoke. EA is 10pts as well. And its tall! two man heights, so it'll be hard to hide i think. One think of interest though, the Taurox weapons can be either roof top turret or rear hull mounted. So does that mean that either you choose 360 arc or 45forward arc? or...............??
From what I can see, the rest of the leaks are true. That includes that fact that IG will now be Astra Millitarum - "often called the imperial guard, especially by the common soldiers"
One definate benifit is that within the IG codex we'll be able to run up to 35 MT's - 5 man command and 3x 10 man squads as a platoon per elite slot, so possibly up to 105 MT's!!
oh, forgot to say, WD in hand.
DeletePeople keep mis-reading wargear list because it's horribly formatted; it should be read like this:
DeleteCarapace Armor
Hotshot Lasgun (Tempestus Scion Only)
Hotshot Las Pistol (Tempestus Prime Only)
Close Combat Weapon (Tempestus Prime Only)
Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades.
The only thing that I changed is the way the text is wrapped.
http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/03/leaks-militarum-tempestus-rules-from.html
Like you said Sjb XD
DeleteGreat point, I reread it and agree. Whoo that makes me feel much better. They should have put the grenades above the tempestor only part, but I see the comma now, and comma's make a huge difference.
DeleteKey for orders is that the commander has an 12" range, not 6". So hopefully this is going to be a standard for order ranges in the main codex as well.
I love that they are platoons now, especially since the command squad is not a requirement. Thanks for the correction, good eyes
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI also agree with you, Hudson, reading it that way has much more sense and makes scions a lot better :)
DeleteGrumpy, the price decrease is very welcome indeed, and makes scions really usable but i still think that scions should cost about 11 point max and retain the old hot shot lasgun/pistol/CC weapon and the Special Operations rule. And yes, the point cost of wargear upgrades was expected, but is still absurd that a power fist/power weapon cost the same for imperial guard than for space marines when is crystal clear that the fist is much more efective in the hands of a space marine IMO.
And no, i'm not forgetting about orders. I know that orders will be a fundamental factor in the efectiveness of the new scions but don't forget that an order needs the presence of a command squad and can fail. The chapter tactics are free and works all the time, combine that with the 14 points cost of a space marine (plus wargear and ITSKNF) and you will agree with me that either the 12 points scion is still overcosted or the basic space marine is horribly undercosted ;)
Well, we will have to wait and read both the new Astra Militarum and Tempestus Militarum codices to see the sinergies in the new guard. Better stay hopeful i suppose :)
I'm actually fine with the weapons cost, as its really not that fluffy to have power weapons all over the place for IG, should be reserved for the special people and cost appropriately for the more rareity than SM. even though I myself use them in platoons, it is not very fluffy.
DeleteTrue, but their are more than a few ways to make orders succeed more, lord commissar, voxs, kell and such. Though the last is too expensive IMO. I don't see having command squads as a bad thing :). I'll disagree on points, I think they are about right as is, and granted SM have tactics but they should. Most are very sitiuational as well, so while you have them they generally are only affecting the game in a few places. The most reliable being the IFs bolter drill but then thats only on bolt weapons.
You have move through cover all the time now, which was only one out of three before. The deep strike one was situational and even with reroll it could go badly. Only real one to lose so far is infiltrate with pinning first turn. As for scouts, well you have lovely creed for that and since they are a platoon, you can outflank quite a few of them or scoot them up in vehicles.
Creed will prob change, but until he does he has great synergy with Scions right now, plus his orders range means if your placing him and the Scions right you still will be in order range with lots of first rank love. I am pretty hopeful about the whole thing, the Tempestus book will prob have rules that bring back the Special Operations rules in essence and the main IG book will prob have something along those lines as well. Granted till we know more its up in the air, but I'm pretty positive that there is more we have yet to see which is going to make up for the SOs loss. Pistols and ccs would be nice, but they never really were a dedicated cc unit to begin with. Keep up some reasonable hope, I'm feeling good about this so far :)
May the Emperor hear our prayers, Grumpy, i'll try keep my hopes high :)
DeleteI must recognize that the possibility of deploy an entire stormtrooper company with vehicle support, like in old 2th edition times, brings a tear of joy to my old veteran guardman eyes ;)
As it should, I am very happy to have my Storm troopers back :)
DeleteI'm kind of confused by the release order here. Is Mil Temp is a standalone codex or a supplement to IG? If its a supplement, why are they dropping it before the main codex update? Won't you need the updated core codex rules to play correctly? It could be the points of the Taurox seem off because the updated IG codex has changed the price for the chimaera etc.
ReplyDeleteServicious, the Disgruntled Dark Eldar
it is weird how they are doing it, but reading the WD, it looks to be kind of its own thing, but tie in the current codex and will carry over to the new one. The page in WD states that MTs are an elite's choice for codex Imperial Guard. I'm assuming the Tempestus will have all the necessary rules to play on its own, including orders, they seem to reference the main book, meaning it will still be up to date when the codex changes as you'll just reference the new book rather than the old
DeleteThe points cost is interesting because as you stated, we don't know what the new costs of things are going to be in the new main IG book so it may not be as high a price as it seems. I don't see the prices of the Taurox as too bad in points, my money is on the Primes being seen more though, their fire power and BS making the difference.
I think that the MT codex, being a stand alone book, as per knights and inquisition, enabling you access to different orders and doctorines that are not in the IG/AM codex
DeleteAgreed. It'll be pretty much standalone minus refrences to main IG, with its own special rules and flavor
DeleteAlso, your gonna need the codex to run MT's as an army, as there is no referance to what the banners or medics do. It says platoon standard (10pts), but is it gonna be the same as the IG platoon std? the same for the medic (15pts)? will be interesting to find out.
ReplyDeleteright now I would just assume they work the same, so standard is blah but medic gives FnP for a reasonable price now at least. I would expect the full codex to have those rules in them, understandable they aren't posting everything int he WD
DeleteNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...nooooo...
ReplyDeleteAs expected, with release of Scions, Kasrkin are on GW pulled from eshop...:(
But what is interesting is that Commissars and Valkyries are under the Militarum Tempestus section
Deletewell, commisars are trained at the schola progenium as well, so its not surprising that there in there. Also, for the elite of the IG/AM its not surprisingthat they have access to the best kit, .e. valkyries.
DeleteNo its not, but no mention of either has been made rules wise in WD so far, so its a good indication they will be in Tempestus, I was pretty sure they would be but this confirms it to me.
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