More rumors and some confirmed on 7th edition have come out and it is looking to be quite interesting. Of course the world is ending now lol. The force org changes have been confirmed in the WD releases as well as changes to the psychic powers (though we are short on specifics). I really find it funny how much people are complaining about them as most really don't even seem to be that bad.
So the force org. Basically you can choose between the standard force org and if you do there are some bonuses, though I have yet to see what they are. Or you can go unbound and bring your hearts desire. Not confirmed whether you'll still have to bring 1 HQ and 2 Troops as prequisites but lets assume not as the "worst case". This really is not that bad. Lets be honest the force org chart hasn't mattered a whole lot for a while with allies, double force org, data slates, formations, supplements etc. Does removing the force org really change much? Nope. Sure WAAC players will abuse it, but I hate to break it to you they have never really found that to be hard in any of the editions we have seen. What this does though is give you more freedom to build some fluffy lists. Is that worth the occasional douche canoe armies? In my book it is.
Now we are still long on details so no need to get all upset that this is ruining things. There is going to be some bonus for sticking with the force org, which I like, so if you want to limit yourself to the force org, you'll be rewarded for doing so. And who knows there may be some negatives for going unbound. All in all I am liking the sound of this and it will be really interesting to see how it will work out. No need to run for the hills.
Psychic is looking to be getting some significant changes. A new phase will be added and it is looking to be a lot like fantasy magic mechanically speaking. I am not too familiar on how it works in Fantasy but the consolidation into a single psychic phase does not look too bad in my view. It simplifies things and consolidates them, so no forgetting which phases you have to use each power in. Perils is looking to be reworked into its own table, which I kinda like, especially if demonic possession can become a possibility. I have read too many stories of that happening and it will be cool to see that finally on the table. Demonology is looking to be an new table, it was used as an example in the WD. Basically ezekiel summoned a bloodthirster, though it seems he was killed in the process. Of coures people are freaking out because ezekiel would never do that. Calm your tits, it was an example and it doesn't seem like every army is going to have access to it, it was made pretty clear in the WD that his opponent allowed him to use it, seeming to mean he was not normally allowed to. Time will tell and I think its a nice addition giving how prevalent deamons are in the fluff in terms of psykers.
Will be interesting to see how psychic powers all work out but so far I am liking the look of things and it will be a lot closer to the fluff than before with more risks to using your psykers. Now not a whole lot of details are out so there should be no jumping the gun here.
Another interesting change is with objectives. There is supposed to be a new objective deck that you draw during the game. Now mission objectives seem to still be in as well, so this seems to be optional secondary objectives to add complexity and give additional options for scoring. I really like this idea as some games can boil down to who gets first blood and this will add a little more and give you a chance in certain games where traditional scoring can be much harder.
Of these changes I am liking them all so far. Time will tell and the devil is in the details, so until we see the rules in full it will be hard to say either way. Though the force org changes can be abused, there is little trouble with that already so really hard to see how this will make things worse. And from a tournament perspective, I seriously doubt unbound will be allowed in standard tournaments, so if that is your worry I seriously would not concern yourself. I like the sound of changes to psychic powers and mechanics, and the new objectives sound quite good to me. We shall see how things turn out in a few weeks, but I would not worry.
GG
One bonus that is floating around for forged armies is rerolling on the warlord tables. If that's true them you could almost guarantee you'll get what you want with creed!
ReplyDeleteI for one will prob stick with the foc for the most part, but I will prob try a list or two unbound for the fun of it. Now if only I could afford to buy a dozen boxes of orgyns!
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ReplyDeleteI cant wait to face an army of riptides......oh hang on i guess i can wait, a very long time
ReplyDeleteBecause 5-6 riptides is so much more than we already have, ofh wait no it isnt ! 3 normal, 1 in dataslate 1 form allied farsight = 5 ... if you go to total crazy and go 7 riptides , than you have nothing else ! kill that 2x 6 firewarrriors and he cant get any objective.
DeleteJust wait until we have more details, everthings has it pros and cons.
Hate to break it to you rex, but riptides ain't much without their markerlight support and buff commander. Then they are a a Ld 8 I2 BS3 MC that doesn't shoot that well and if you can get in cc you can make it run quite easily. Hell I've killed plenty with just lasgun volleys. An army of riptides is not scary, its weak and underpowered.
DeleteIm thinking that with 30+ objectives random every turn that alone is going to severely nerf all those OP Deathstar thingymagiggers. The tactical values random objectives will instow is going to crush Competitive as we know it I think.
ReplyDeleteOk, time to dig into what 7th (what bit we know so far) will do to us filthy xenos (particularly my beloved DE):
ReplyDeleteBound and Unbound: First the good, if the bonuses for having an FoC army are handled well, this could quite possibly bring great balance to the force, er game. It helps open up aged codexes like mine, allowing me to take more air units and ravagers to counter spam heavy lists that can be fielded under the current rules (12 leman russ from 4 FoC Grumpy?) basically making up for my lack of ability to run things in squadrons or having fancy formations. If used 'responsibly' it opens up the possibilty for some effective, yet fluffy, armies. For example a Dark Eldar coven list becomes a thing because you can now bring a haemi for every unit and taking talos/chronos doesn't prevent you from having enough ravagers or air power. That being said here is the potentially game ending downside... this new ruling seems to me like GW sort of gave up on playtesting and trying to internally balance the game within the FoC. Real balance would have come from tweaking the existing way the game works and going back and releasing FAQs to keep out of date armies in the game. It is obvious to me GW did not do this because that is far less profitable than what they are doing now. I don't want to say flat out 'money grab' because if the rules do fix the problems (there is a chance) they will have done exactly what we have wanted them to for a long time. That is, listen to your customers and fix what needs fixing in a shorter time span. Not that abuse does not exist currently, but unless the bonuses for bound lists are SIGNIFICANT, the potential for abuse has increased dramatically. If the abuse gets worse and made LEGAL, the game will degenerate into a paper, scissors, rock-like spam fest. Grumpy, I respect your opinion highly, but you are just flat wrong about riptides. They are one of the best, if not the best, take all comers units in the game at a modest price. They can be kitted out to handle anything and there is nothing they can't hurt (even AV14 they can glance). Don't get me wrong, they drop like flies to my poison shots (all things with a toughness do), but the math hammer rules, and a whole army of them won't often be overcome by anything less than an army designed to kill them, which brings up the whole paper, scissors, rock element. Heldrake spam also scares me...
Phychic Phase: I reserve judgement until I see what phycherless armies like mine (and Tau/Necrons) get to do about it.
Daemons: I don't think this helps or hurts the game, just sell more GW daemon models...
In summary, this could be great for the game....or could end the game...only seeing the rest of the rules will tell... but if you really want to know if I think the 'lightside' or the 'darkside' will win...I recently purchased the X-Wing starter set....
Servicious, the Disgruntled Dark Eldar
I just don't see unbound having much more effect than things are currently, its a far slighter shift than how things already are. It will open up a few more units that have some limitations but in effect its minimal. Will see what the bonuses are, but I don't see unbound having the effect people are fearing.
DeleteAs to riptides, sorry I disagree, a standard riptide is good no doubt, but without all the goodies its just a BS3 T6 model. BS3 is a big deal, playing an army that is BS3 based, you need a lot of shots to get the required affect. A riptide just doesn't have that on its own, SMS are very limited in what they can threaten and its ion cannon is either shooting three shots or a large blast. And they are not ignoring cover either, so great you hit ten guys, but oh darn I have a 2+ cover save behind my wall. Its the support units that make a riptide over the top, much like IG orders, they are force mulitpliers. Without them the unit is good, but not great. I don't need to build an army to specifically fight it, every weapon I have can hurt it, even a las gun. All I have to do is kill one a turn, a normal army can win that battle of attrition without needing to be built for it, and by the end of the game I am sitting on my objectives and my oppenent is left with a few riptides that can't change the outcome.
I have to agree with grumpy on this one, I don't think it will change the game in the way everyone is thinking it will. Most of the spam lists that are out there already exist in one form or another, so that's not going to change, but the counters that are available will.
DeleteI do agree that it feels like GW are getting a little lazy in the play testing department and the whole demon thing is a little odd.
All I say is, bring it. I look forward to the new challenges with 7th edition. Changing is always a good thing.
Delete1. Marker lights are not that hard to come by.or much of a points sink, and certainly not required. Large blast mode can barely tell the difference between BS 3 and 4. They can also get skyfire so a fliers aren't going to help you much either.
Delete2. They can equip missiles that ignore cover I believe, like I said well rounded nothing they can't do.
3. Like I stated you can spam riptides as it is yes, but 4 under 19,999 points is the max.With unbound you are can now get as many as points will allow, I don't have the exact cost, but it is certainly low enough to take more than four, taking a bad situation and making it worse.The point should be to make the game better, as GW is already losing customers, but this will possibly make it worse.
Servicious, the Disgruntled Dark Eldar
Yes markerlights aren't hard to get, but you'll need multiple units to make all those riptides effective. That adds up. Its not the BS4 riptide that is the issue, its the BS6 one thats ignoring cover. With the loadout you talk about, you can fit about 8 into an army, but thats it, no support, no scoring. Smart missiles are only S5AP5 with 30" range, and at BS3 those 4 shots are not going to be as effective, even with twin linking. 8 lone riptides are not going to be that unstopable, they suck in CC for one, and every lost one takes a large chunk out of that army. I can pretty easily take one or two out a turn, since there is nothing else to shoot at, focus on one or two a turn and they go bye bye. You can use cover to your advantage and simply out range them with a lot of weapons, forcing them out towards you to finish off and hold up in close combat.
DeleteThe riptide spam is not the worst that can be done with unbound and honestly is a fragile and ineffective army. If someone wants to buy that many riptides and play them, I'll happily play that game.
Ok, I am now moderately optomistic about the new bound/unbound rules. Two bonuses have been revealed so far, reroll warlord table which is meh (unless they change the generic table to eliminate traits that are only situational), but the rules making bound list troops scoring and uncontestable except by other bound troops is pretty great. I think this will bring some balance against unbound spammy lists like riptide spam. I won't actually have to kill your list to win, just have my troops survive to get on objectives at the end, even if your riptides, for example, are on the objective as well. Maybe that is still not enough when once considers getting tabled by a spam list, but we will see. Also if I read correctly, the transports of scoring troops will benefit from this rule as well making the scoring troops effectively....well I can always counter my opponents spam with venom spam and STILL be using a bound list...
DeleteServicious, the Disgruntled Dark Eldar