Wednesday, May 10, 2017

8th Edition and the Astra Militarum


We have been getting lots more hints and looks at the new edition, including a tease of the new Imperial Guard, though I will point out nothing really of substance was in the tease other than "Units you haven't used will be good" sort of things.  However, enough is starting to coalesce to start really looking at the new edition through the Imperial Guards lense.


Some of the interesting things released, in part as a response to the current editions abuses has been how they have revamped how independent characters work.  Basically ICs can no longer join units.  But you cannot shoot at them unless they are the closest unit to the firer.  So, in substance the outcome is basically the same as we have done.  You are still going to hide your characters, not much differently than before but it should prevent a lot of crazy combinations.  Commissars will help with dealing with battleshock but how specifically is not mentioned.

It does look like the standard russ will be making a comeback in the new edition, with the stats for the tank and the battle cannon released.  The russ will have T 8, 3+ save and 12 wounds, and the battle cannon, since blasts are no longer in, has a modified stat line that actually is pretty good.  Same range of 72" and is Heavy D6, so potential of 6 shots, with S8 and AP -2 and Damage of D3.  So that means each shot has a potential of 3 wounds.  All in all the battle cannon looks to be extremely versatile in taking care of a group of enemies or knocking a lot of wounds off of a tough target.  They did discuss that "blasts" will be decent against large groups but anti infantry weapons will end of being slightly better.  Another note is that ordnance is gone from the battle cannon profile, and I would not be surprised to see ordnance go away altogether.  Will be interesting to see with that.

Another nice change is that twin linked weapons will now give you extra shots, rather than re-rolling to hit.  Overall I think I prefer this, as it essentially is the same but better, as lets say you have a heavy bolter, you roll 3 and then re-roll the misses, with the best being 3 hits.  Now, you're still statistically likely to get the same results as in terms of number of hits, but are more likely to also get more hits, as you'll be rolling 6 dice for that heavy bolter.  I can see things like hydras seeing a lot of table time.

Heavy weapons no longer snap fire when you move, which is good for models that this affected, as you now have only a -1 penalty to BS, but this will also affect vehicles as well.  Now this is the overall general rule, so I would not be surprised if vehicles will get ways around this, as otherwise this will hurt a lot of IG vehicle shooting.  Units though can split their fire now between different targets, so you can fire lasguns at on unit, lascannon at another, and a flamer at another.  Note this is units, not models, so tanks will still most likely be shooting at a single target, but squadrons will be able to split fire.

Orders now are automatically passed, so no more leadership checks!  Only order we know is in is first rank fire, making the lasguns and hot shots Rapid fire 2, which appears to be 2 shots to max and 4 at half range.  Otherwise don't yet know what the rest of the orders will look like.

With the changes to assault, charging with a IG unit is something plausible now, though tarpiting will be far, far harder to do since units can leave combat at will.  But since guardsmen can go first when they charge, a large unit of them can at least get some good damage in before the return swings, making charging more viable for standard troopers and also a boon to ogryns, though not really enough to make them good in my opinion.

While there are still quite a few things left to learn, really what we can see is that infantry will still play a crucial role in the imperial guard, though specific tactics will change.  Tanks like the leman russ will be seeing a resurgence as well, and will be interesting if orders will be revamped for them also.  Overall, the IG have a lot to look forward too, and if the battle cannon is anything to go by, then artillery should come out pretty good as well.

Cadia Stands!
GG

21 comments:

  1. Snipers (ratlings) will probably be much more significant in 8th for taking out characters.

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    1. Agreed. Snipers and prob artillery will be able to snipe characters.

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  2. Just read this comment on Reddit btw - The comment made on facebook (by the official Warhammer 40,000 account) was: "Tanks can split their weapons fire between different targets."

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    1. I hope that is true, though that could be tanks plural.

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    2. Not sure as obviously third hand but the implication was the question was about individual tanks so fingers crossed. I hope so, would make sense with the individual miniatures able to target whoever, why wouldn't tank sponsons?

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    3. I could see it argued either way and make sense, from the perspective that if single models that can fire multiple weapons, if they have to shoot them at the same target, then I can see the same for vehicles. In either case, its not a huge deal either way.

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    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    5. If you read the faction focus on Space Marines, when they are discussing the Predator's weapon options they specifically mention it being able to fire all weapons at different targets.

      https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/29/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-space-marines/

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  3. Nothing really of substance? The Chaos article was just a tease with nothing really of substance. But the Imperial Guard article at least provided us some solid details, like the profiles and stats for Leman Russ tanks, the ability of Ratlings to snipe Characters, and how Orders are automatically passed. Plus the "First Rank, Fire! Second Rank, Fire!" Order making lasguns and hot-shot lasguns Rapid Fire 2!

    I'm sure that's quite the substance! Are you not confusing the better written Imperial Guard article with the poorly written Chaos one?

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    1. yeah the IG article gave me eneugh info that I could feel comfortable knowing how they'll play, chaos? it's anyones guess

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  4. Don't forget squads will be able to split fire as well. And templates are replaced by die roll number of hits (templates hurt big bunched up units more)

    I think Guard is going to do very well in 8th.

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  5. The wound roll needed favours guard lasguns. The new methodology of not needing 6 to wound untill toughness is double strength means lasguns now wound v T5 on a 5+, not a 6+. A small buff but interest when combined with new FRFSRF order.

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  6. This may make quad heavy bolters and laser rapier destroyers brutal. (Not to mention that a reaper autocannon will become 4 shots on chaos terminators bring it up to assault cannon levels.)
    As for the -1 to hit with heavy weapons if moving relentless/slow and purposeful could still be a thing which would negate the penalty.

    I really want to see how Barrage works in 8th. Basilisks and wyverns say hi. (I assume that a basilisk will be D6 shots from its earthshaker like the battle cannon and that the Wyverns quad mortars will be 4D3 shots maybe with a negative modifier to hit if firing indirectly? We shall know when they cover it)

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    1. There twinlinked so it would be 8 shots, so 8d3 shots

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  7. Im just waiting for my 6 shot Vendetta's..... sign me up baby!

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  8. I'm not sure about the Battle Cannon. If the number of shots is D6 (Average 3.5), and the BS is still 3 (now called 4+) doesn't that mean you only hit an average of 1.75 shots? That would mean the anti-horde is very limited, and at AP-2, a 4+ save for Space Marines puts the anti-marine is about 50% to kill a single one-wound marine.

    Heck, if you math it out, the Battle Tank can't even kill itself!
    1.75 hits per turn
    =0.875 Wounds per turn (str.8 vs T8)
    =0.583 unsaved wounds per turn
    And D3 average is equal to 2, so about 1.2 wounds per turn.

    Maybe I'm missing perspective?

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    1. Your not totally off. A couple things though, space marines would only get a 5+ save, not a 4+ (-2 ap not -1). We don't know for sure how damage is resolved, so if you cause two wounds, is it a single save roll or one for each wound caused. Most likely it will be for each wound, so against a marine, you are more likely to get the kill, but will kill less. Its not a anti horde weapon as much as an anti infantry weapon on the smaller side.

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    2. This is the first weapon profile that has me concerned. The battle cannon might just go from solid hitter to pathetic peashooter. We really need to know how damage works, d3 before or after saving throws, but to me it looks like the Russ is now a solid tank but its iconic gun is a dud.

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  9. One of my big hopes for Guard in the new edition will be that orders are just as effective for MSU armies as they are for blob armies.

    At the moment an infantry platoon benefits from the orders issued by its platoon commander far more if it is blobbed than if it is run with separate infantry squads.

    Basically, when it comes to basic Guard infantry, I'd love to see more viable lists than just the mono-build blob infantry list.

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  10. احدث اجهزة الانذار والمراقبة فقط من الحارس الخاص اكبر شركة "امن وحراسة" فى مصر باقل الاسعار يمكنك ان تحصل على افراد "حراسات خاصة" لحمايتك انت واسرتك فقط تواصل معنا الان

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  11. Looking forward to your complete take on 8th

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