Well I think most people are aware of the huge shakeup going on in Fantasy, and I am jealous. Despite differing opinions, no one can argue that the fluff and background is being moved forward in way not seen in ages. Compared to 40k, Fantasy is moving at a lighting pace. 40k is stuck, the clock of doom about to tick but never moving. I so want 40k to move forward, even if it just moves back to the eternal stalemate.
What I mean by that is that it would be great to get some new major stories and plot moving. Lets see the 13th black crusade move forward and be completed, even if at the end chaos is repulsed. It allows the story to unfold more, and importantly lets characters die so new ones can rise. I know some would not be happy, but what if Abbadon died? Calgar? Dante? Creed? What if Eldar were brought closer to the brink? What if a Primarch rose? What if the Imperium was fractured?
The point is, 40k is not stuck in this all or nothing stance, where if the fluff moves forward, something so catastrophic happens that ends the universe. They can certainly go that route, Abbadon can succeed completely, cast down the emperor and the Imperium and drown reality in Chaos. Or perhaps in great sacrifice he is deafeated, the imperuim fractured but chaos as well, driven into a new civil war for dominance.
What if Gazhkull is killed? What really bothers me by some fiction and in many ways this applies to 40k, is that characters become unkillable. They are no longer real characters, just immovable objects and forces, more elements than people. Oh here comes calgar in this epic duel against a scary monster. Oh wait its calgar, so he is going to win somehow. Woo hoo exciting. What if he didn't? Fantasy has done a great job of showing the characters can die, allowing new heroes and stories to unfold.
40k right now is defined by immovable objects and unstoppable forces, in the guise of characters. But the really aren't. They were at one point, with stories and histories, exploits and failures. But now they really are nothing more than an element. None can really win, but cannot lose either, as that would force change, the stalemate would move.
Do your characters really feel that alive? We'd like to think that, but if abbadon is killed in a battle, wait he really wasn't killed, he was teleported/warp rift etc. out in time and is still alive. Am I the only one that feels a little cheated by this?
My real hope is that what is happening to Fantasy will eventually happen to 40k. Some will rail against it, but I would welcome it. Seeing some iconic characters fall, seeing who would rise to claim their mantle's. It would be exciting for 40k as it hasn't been in nearly a decade or more. And I do hope and believe that this will happen, to some extent. Simply because it seems to be working financially for Fantasy. Depending how much so, this experiment may come to fruition in 40k.
What do you think? How much change do you want to see? Obviously too much and 40k ends (literally). But am I the only one tired of the frozen clock and characters?
GG
One of the reasons I never play characters( apart from pask) would love to see the imperium be on the brink, a new seige of terra, the nids take a chunk out, the orks rampage, the eldar turn and re rise, a new race perhaps, Lysander rise to chapter master, cadia and creed take one for the team for some new guard models, the legions re-form on both sides, the opertunities are endless. How old are the Kahn Ragnar, Dante creed etc models, give it a few years and 8th edition might move the story along
ReplyDeleteIt could be that the endtimes for fantasy was merely a "primer" to see how the community would act to such wild events. Then of course I have no idea if the fantasy forums are full of endless rage over some of the changes. It seems they adjust one unit in 40k by 1 point, and the forums just rage endlessly.
ReplyDeleteThey also rage endlessly when another unit doesn't get that 1 point adjustment.
DeleteThree things spring to mind when I read this. First; old skool world campaign to sort out the black crusade. Second; they've already ditched some characters, so maybe there already making a start ready for 8th. And thirdly; they'd have to change the name. Why? Aren't we in 40.999? Therefore if they advanceIit we'd be in 41.000 and we'd all be playing 41k.
ReplyDeleteDitched some characters but none of them, that I know of, actually died. Instead they just disappear and occasionally reappear in a later codex. Let them die, let it have meaning and let it propel things forward.
DeleteThere's absolutely no need for a name change. Even if the year moved forward then 40K would still represent the end of times and the downfall of humanity. The name 40K would not become irrelevant and would remain a perfect name for the game.
Lol I think you took the name change a little to seriously. It would be silly to change the name mostly as its already so well known.
DeleteI sometimes feel they're working slowly towards just what you're talking about. Reading the latest Ultramarines novels (I know, Smurfs = boring in some eyes) I've gotten a distinct feel they're building towards something. The enemy keeps changing ('Nids, Necrons and Chaos) but the hits keep coming too. By my count we're down over 400 marines from this one chapter (and several planets) and some of the stories seem ominous about something permanent happening to Calgar.
ReplyDeleteI know that's only one small corner of the galaxy and not everybody cares, but I'm wondering if the set-up is for a trial run of the end-times for 40K. Kill Calgar and break my Ultramarines for example, and see how the player/reader-base takes it.
Kind of micro-end-times. They can follow up with Abaddon or Dante or the Emperor later if it goes 'well'.
Mind you, that's only one book series.
In the Dark Eldar codex there is some serious laying down of fluff regarding Khaines Gate in the dark city which implies a new presence in the warp. This could be a new chaos god, or Cegorach the laughing god or Ynnead the eldar god of the dead that is supposed to be fuelled by dead eldar.
ReplyDeleteThis is certainly a big leap from the old fluff and I'm also hoping is indicative of an End Times style advancement in 40K.
But who knows man!!
Did you read the supplement too? They go a bit nuts. Things about to get majorly nasty in the dark city. Who thought it was a good idea to bring an entire invested nid world into cormaggah?
DeleteI completely agree. Some move would be nice... from 13th Crusade we have seen some solid move just in conquering Cadia.
ReplyDeleteBut we want dead characters! Or alive!:) I fear poor Cypher will be forever jumping to Terra... and Abaddon will be marching as long as Cypher.
So far, universe is evolving, but really, really slowly... So, lets have Abaddon killed by another Chaos champion and let lead the new guy swift strike to Terra. Or destroy one founding SM chapter (yeah, I know, the players rage would be immense...understandably). Better - make it traitor. Let Orks waste few Eldar cities and kill big daddy. Show heretic chaos faction in Tau... Unleash Mortarion...:)
Dark/chaos tau sounds like fun. Ones that have turned their backs on the greater good and all that for personal gain, could be very cool.
DeleteAs for the rest, don't think that destroying a founding chapter is good, decimating one or more on the other hand is ok, maybe even in the defence of terra from a new chaos warlord, one who's usurped abaddon. The emperor dieing for real and as sending to be a proper God, causing massive upheaval in the imperium. Eldar pushed to the edge, but finding some sort of reprieve but only at great cost...etc etc
You could go on for months thinking up stuff, the options are pretty much limitless, which is good. Personally I think the timeline should always be moving forward with every new edition, maybe not in such a dramatic fashion but it should always be moving forward.
I completely agree and have had many discussions with fellow 40K players over this very topic. The story NEEDS to move forward and we can't do that stuck in time as we are. Instead we get to see history rewritten countless times, fluff changing codex release to codex release, and insignificant events being dropped into the timeline that have no real value. The big events in history have been covered, let's move on already!
ReplyDeleteYeah I like how they are doing campaigns now, but I want them to start doing NEW ones, not just rehashing and expanding the already established ones. They can use this campaign format to move it forward without some of the risk of the old global campaigns. They can set the outcome so they don't have to worry about a faction winning too well, which is what happened with the last black crusade with chaos nearly destroying Cadia. I understand them not wanting to repeat that, but thats why the new campaign format can be an avenue to give new content but control the outcome. Here's hoping.
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