Tuesday, March 18, 2014

40k Is Pay To Play

And it’s not a bad thing. Lately the accusations of 40k being Pay to Play have been made regarding the game and GW's releases. Now I have a problem with this comparison to the controversial and much maligned video game practice of "Pay to Play". The problem I have is this is not an accurate comparison, at least in the negative light it is portrayed. Video games and tabletop are two completely different animals and to try to do so is to compare apples to oranges.

Here is why. You pay either an upfront cost or a subscription to play a video game, in a vast majority of cases. So you pay for your game, then you have access to EVERYTHING available in that game, all armies with every unit and ability they have access to. Whether this is upfront or through subscription, it is essentially the same, you pay then you have everything that is within the game. Then they release something new, let’s say it’s an item, class, or unit. They provide it as an option that you have to buy if you want to use it. Most cases this is also a good unit/ability/weapon. Thus you ge the accusation that this is pay to play/win. If you are willing to pay more, you get better things quicker rather than playing the game longer to get comparable gear.
So why is this not comparable to 40k and GW. Well you do not pay a subscription to GW to play the game, nor do you pay a onetime fee. Let’s say for the sake of argument that GW was subscription based. So you pay a monthly fee and in doing so you get access to every model and army in the store, with each store have every army and every model available. Then they come out with a new one, but you now have to pay extra to use that one. That would be pay to play that is comparable to the video game industry.
But you don't. You only get access to as many models as you are willing to pay for, or share with buddies. By the very nature of table top, you MUST pay to play. If I do not have plasma guns, my army will lack that weapon till I buy models or bitz with it. I must pay to play. The only way I will have a leman russ is if I buy it. Same for any unit. To have a well rounded army, I must buy the units and weapons to allow me to do so. Pay to play.
This is a hobby, not just a game, the game is only an aspect of it, arguably one of the larger aspects if not largest, but it is still only a part of the whole. There are always better units then others and people will naturally use those units (see buy) over weaker ones. Note that does not mean the best units always.
The point is you are in to this hobby as much as you are willing to spend, and if you have reached that point where you are not willing or able to pay any more, do not bitch because there are others that are still willing or able to pay more. That is your problem.
So you don't like that GW is releasing Data slates in a "money grab", its allow people with more money to win more. Bull shit. Please show me data that supports that these data slates and supplements are just wrecking face. The Tau data slate, hmm, haven't seen Tau just destroying. Most combos and armies that are winning are using their codex's as is, with maybe an ally (usually a 5th one btw, see dark eldar).
I like allies, I like supplement, I like data slates. Very few of these are powerful in their own right. Most allow you to run more fluffy armies that are reasonably competitive. How dare they, they should leave fluffy armies in their shitty uncompetitiveness where they belong! Really? Has it not been the biggest gripe forever that fluffy armies are not competitive. Oh but now you can run a SM army with Chapter Tactics that allow you to play your chapter, have rules that reflect their fluff, and be decently competitive, note decently not wreck face. This is what most seem to really want, when you start seeing their real complaints about their armies.
Are some codex's more powerful than others, yes. Should GW strive to have relatively balanced codex's? Yeah kinda. I like that fluffy rules are focused on, though I also want that to translate to good boons and constraints. I think that they have a very good job of this for the most part, except for Tau and Eldar, those are at a level above most. But if those are taken out, 6th ed codex's are all relatively even with each other overall, with certain builds rising above others.
Of course many complain about releases coming out right after a codex, claiming that they are trying to grab more money when it should be in the codex to begin with. Really? Since never have we had codex's that included formations where you take certain units and give you special abilities outside of the norm. But now we should duh! I want MORE, MORE, MORE, but damn you for expecting me to pay more. I'm cheap and want extra for free.
Does GW have issues with quality? Yes, they are not perfect. Inq is a great example of a lazy job done. But it allows you to at least play an inquisitorial warband, which is fluffy, and you have never been able to use before. Unless you played with GKs with coteaz. Hey I know its crazy, maybe not everyone wants to take coteaz and wants to make their own warband around their own inquisitor. Hey how about that. You can do that now. Blah horrible.
It is easy to say that they should just fix the issues with current codex's rather than releasing new things. How about some perspective. They have thousand+ models, with multiple game lines. To update all of that in the instant gratification timeline that people want is impossible. It is laughable since they are releasing new armies at a pace never seen before. It is an attempt. The quality of execution will vary and some miss the mark. Its the nature of such an aggressive release schedule. I am willing to forgive some mistakes when the attempt is at least made. Are they off the hook?  Absolutely not. I would buy far more if some of the rule books were better or the prices were lower. But it's their company and they will set their prices as they see fit. I vote with my wallet, I buy when something fills the need that I want. In the case of Inquisition, the ability to take an inquisitor and retinue without the baggage of grey knights, was worth the relatively lazy rule book. Btw I loved the fluff in it and have reread it a couple of times, . If you don't care about fluff in 40k, well I'm sorry thats a large part of this game whether you like it or not. You can find other games that focus on the game play more than the fluff.
And in regards to that, we are in a wonderful age for the tabletop hobby. There are so many different games out there that are a good product and provide a different experience. If 40k is not the experience you are looking for, then why are you playing it? Are you having fun? If not what hell are you doing? Have fun. That is the goal. I do not believe that everyone should play 40k, 'cause its the best ever that there will ever be. Nope its a game and hobby that I love because of the fluff and the game. Its not everyone's cup of tea. Find the one you like. In the end though, you have to pay to play, not matter which game you want to be involved in.
Now what to do, since if I don't talk about that, I just bitching about people bitching. The first thing is to look at yourself, an honest look, and ask yourself what you want and see if that lines up with what 40k is offering. If it isn't, then find something that is. It is your money and you choose how to spend it. It’s your time, you should enjoy it. If 40k isn't doing that for you, then find something that does. There is nothing wrong with that. Where you cross the line is shitting on things because other people have dared to enjoy something that you do not. I will never attack warmachine or x-wing or whatever game that I do not play or like. Nor will I attack players of those games. They are not my cup of tea, but if you like them, enjoy them and be happy that other people may enjoy other games. Despite what you may think, it is not YOUR game. It is the companies that make them. They get to decide the direction they want to pursue.
Now if you are in the area where you like 40k, but not every decision GW makes, guess what most of us are in that same boat. So how do you tell GW you do not agree. Well one, tell them. Send them a CONSTRUCTIVE email with your reasons and examples of what you don't like and why. But this is useless if you don't tell them what you want, complaining, even constructive, is useless. Give them a direction you want them to go in. Explain why you think prices should be lower and what you would buy if they were. And be realistic, saying it would be great if all digital products were $5 and you would buy them all if they were, is not realistic. And then comes the other part that is even more important. Don't buy things. Guess what if they don't sell things, they don't exist. They have proven time and again that they will adjust either through rules or pricing to get models to sell. It may not be what you want either, but they do adjust.
It will not be fixed overnight; it will take years for a company as large as GW to shift directions.  Its easy to say lower prices.  But real money is better the theoretical money.  Lowering prices lowers their margins.  You can claim all you want that they have plenty of margins and are gouging.  How do you know that?  Please share your data on their model production costs.  They have the highest quality models being produced.  I have yet to see any company match them in quality of plastic, with comparable detail and model ability.  You do pay for quality, despite what many wish to claim.  But rules drive sales you say.  Quantify that.  If you can’t then that statement is pure conjecture and wishing.  All you have is people saying that they would buy models if the rules were better.  I have said that.  Yet I have a knight and love it, I also bought the codex, and I am happy with it for the most part.  Do I wish all the knight variants were included in it.  Sure.  But I understand why they did what they did.  If the knight didn’t sell well, then they were not committed to more models to make, as with recent court rulings striking down rules and sketches as being enough for IP protection. 
Like it or not, that is the state of the business.  They have to protect their IP.  That is their duty.  The days are gone where they can write rules for as many units as they want, and worry about the model later.  Its how it is now. 
So to wrap this up, do not crap on people that are enjoying the hobby.  If you disagree, be constructive.  If you want to see change, well you may have to leave the hobby, at least in buying models and rules, till they do.  It’s the only way they will listen.  Money talks.  Constructive communication also works, when done as a community.  It must be constructive though.  You may think you sound perfectly sane.  Have someone read it though, someone not involved in the hobby in anyway.  If they think you are being reasonable, then go for it.  If you are not having fun, move on to something that you enjoy.  Any hobby that you will get involved in is going to be pay to play.  The money is yours to do with as you choose, you get what you pay for.


  1. Covered everything that's on my mind about this issue as well!

    I am so darn tired of all the ranting and whining about GW. This is insane! This kind of behavior in people, and the amount of it, just recently exploded. I remember when the Internet wasn't that big of a deal yet, and my father used to play 2nd and 3rd edition 40k (which had pretty awful rules In my point of view) bitchfests like the ones we are experiencing now where unthinkable of.

    The fact that people are now able to share their pissed off behavior through the net, enables others to bitch and rant as well. My God, back in the day we simply bought stuff and accepted the rules as they are. Now everyone that's unhappy wants to voice their concerns and feels entitled to changes to make them happy.

    Just recently I walked into my local store to play a game and some observers showed up to see a friend and me play. Shortly into the game they were asking about certain models and combinations my opponent and I brought, and immediately they started whining/bitching on how we could bring certain models, because they were soooo OP...Cortaez OP, Valkyries OP, Wraithnight OP.... when I asked them if they played against any of these models yet only a handful did. When I asked them on why they are so opinionated I received the answer: "well everyone on the net is saying so, reviews on the net are saying this blah blah blah...."

    If winning in a game is not easy, and cannot be achieved through little -to-no- effort, it has to be downtalked and made terrible.

    In today's age, finding constructive communication, especially in the younger generation, is almost impossible.

    1. Oh completely agree. Having a discussion now adays is nearly impossible. GW is evil and anything they do, even when asked for, is bad. And when you talk to them, rarely is it from experience.

      Escalation is a great example. I have played it both me and my opponent had fun. He actually played another game later, against a reaver no less, and still had fun. He wasn't tabled and managed to almost kill it, though lost the game in the end. Everyone just wants to throw out that the revenant is overpowered because I saw a couple games on the internent (with plenty of rules mistakes) and thus it is decided the whole thing is bad.

    2. As usual GG, I have found most of your post very inciteful with a number of good points. I think there are some wrinkles in your pay to play vs. pay to win however. Not that they are inacurate, but maybe some angles you didn't consider. For one, how does proxy fit in to your view? GW developed some rules for a game, but in no way are you required to use their models. Hell, you could use empty bases of appropriate size and still 'play' the game. How does your pay to play/pay to win view factor in with your previous arguments that super heavies and D strength don't break the balance? In my view those units definately break the balance, and coincidently are super expensive to purchase in dollars (shocker)? How does GW dropping spore pods from the tyranid codex not look like a temper tantrum that their profits are being cut into? They really boned alot of 'hobbyists' who put effort into creating their own pods just to stick it to Chapter House because they were too damn lazy to create a superior model? I used to share many of your views, but one thing I learned recently changed that. Sure alot of money and effort goes into creation of good models and marketing etc, but at the end of the day, once the molds are created, they are quite litteraly just printing money. The cost of resin/plastic is stupidly little and the rest is PURE PROFIT. To prove this to myself (and as a protest GW price gouging) I have started casting my DE army on my own. Creating rubber molds to duplicate their products is the pricy part (still not expensive) and the plastic/resin is sinfully cheap. I bought a $30 DE Venom and with $75 in resin casting supplies created 9 more of my own ($50 was spent on the rubber for the molds). I could sell these to people (I won't because that is definately not legal) and make huge profits selling them for $8 a pop. What I don't get is why GW hasn't dropped their prices to expand their customer base? For example, I estimate I could copy and print the new knight model for around $100 initial investment (not including the base model) and sell them for about $25 each and make 25% in profit off that. These aren't crap copies either. I have put a base coat on my Venoms and the local GW staff couldn't tell the difference. This reall makes me wonder what the hell GW is going to do once 3D printing goes mainstream...

      Much respect,

    3. One ting to say about casting, its much easier to cast an already produced model, than from scratch. Plus you are not paying someones salary to do so, or the insurance on them. Doing something at home on your own time is not comparable to mass production costs. Absolutely you can copy a model and produce it cheaper. However then you have ship it. The logistical costs of running a multinational supply chain are not cheap. Simply taking into account that you can produce a single model cheaper for a limited number is not a one to one comparison. Do I think they are too much, yes. The reason I don't buy so much is because of this.

      Note it is not a temper tantrum. Its law. They have no IP rights to those models an can actaully be sued for making their own since another company has made one and copyrighted it. The court ruling is the cause of that. They cannot legally produce a model, even if it is their fluff, that another company beat them too and protected it. Granted the chances of them getting sued over it is low, but it does not change legal precedence.

      I have already talked about my views on proxy and homemade models, in most cases I am okay with it. You can read my post on that if you want more.

      The great thing about this whole interenet thing is that we can discuss and talk about these things and disagree civally. I fine with that. It is un educated hate and dragging the hobby down that bothers me.

      When it comes to superheavies, i also made the point that playing with or against them is entirely your choice, neither being right or wrong. I personally do not think they are such a huge deal, but that is me, you disagree and don't want to see them, thats up to you and your group. It goes back to being a good sport on both sides.

      You also have to think about displacement when it comes to lower/adjusting prices. Sure they can lower prices, but are the increased sales going to increase profits that they would lose from the prices going down. Maybe, but its all theoretical until they attempt it, and most companies will take real money that they are taking in versus theoretical money.

      Thanks for the comment.

    4. Yes paying a couple of model makers salary costs a lot, and sure shipping has costs, but once molds are made you are turning a few dollars worth of plastic into a product you are selling for often $50+. And they are made with machines so remove the labor involved with casting at home = literally printing money at 1000% markup. Shipping is based on weight, and Amazon made a fortune selling books for $5 and up, books that often weigh more than a GW model, so eliminate shipping as eating into your profit that much, even international. I just bought a used book from India and shipping was $1.50.

      It certainly is a temper tantrum. There are no intellectual property rights at stake with the spore pod, all they would have to do is call it 'Tyranid Spore Pod' or 'Mycetic Spore Pod' etc. They created a name and created rules so the name is not at issue. They didn't create an image in a codex so Chapter House could have made anything they wanted and sold it to be used as a spore pod. Conversely, GW could make one so long as it isn't identical in appearance to theirs, which would not be hard at all. The whole affair is like filing a lawsuit against people who made Gundam models because I'm using them as Tau battlesuits. It doesn't prevent GW from making Tau battlesuits. They can't win the fight or cut Chapter House out of their market share, so they took their ball and went home.

      Superheavies are no longer really a choice, no more than me requesting you don't use a Basilisk because my DE don't have artillery. Sure you can make arrangements in friendly games, but you should be able to use the models you paid good money for so long as they don't break the rules, and superheavies are now part of the core rules, just like a codex, just like knights. Superheavies would not be such a big deal if their was parity of them in EVERY army. You play IG and sadly for the rest of us 40k is still a mostly Imperial centric game, so its no real wonder you don't have a problem with it.. Its what sells best sadly (though elder and now Tau have made some headway). I think your opinion would be a bit different if you had a xenos army or encountered revenant titans in every game you played. The revenant is a straight up I win button, which is why I won't use one with my DE (not to mention makes no sense fluff wise, just GW being lazy, again). I think by the next edition and the updating of all codexes, balance may arrive, but its not there right now, and for us xenos it can't come soon enough.

      As always, good chat,


    5. I think you are underestimating the costs a little bit. Their models have to cover the companies entire overhead, which is no small task. I don't think amazon made a fortune on selling cheap books, thats a little simplified. They made it by providing an easy shopping experience and reliable and cheap shipping over the internet. GW has to postition themselves in the market as well, they are not alone. They have chosen to be the "Premium" product, and the are. They have the best models. There is more to large scale shipping than simply weight. Moving over vast distances has large admistrative and legal costs, dealing with different countries legal issues and trade laws. Amazon shipping most of their products from within the US cuts their costs. You recieave your product from an Amazon warehouse in the US(or other country). If I order something, it comes from the nearest warehouse. This is different from shipping their whole set product line around the world. Also the tooling costs for these models are not cheap. I wish I could find the link, but their was a great podcast that talked with some in the industry and did a great job putting to light the costs of making models. If I find it I will link it.

      I just simply don't see a smart business decision as a temper tantrum. And also why should they show loyalty to people that are not purchasing from them? They were put in the legal wrong with the chapter house case. Generally bunisses will not try and see how far they can go on that line. They readjust and go in a different direction. And would people have even bought new spore pods if GW made one? You seem to be saying they already had their own.

      I think there is decent parity for most armies with super heavies. Imperial has more, but more does not mean better. The mojority of the baneblades are pretty meh. It is an imperial centric game and I do enjoy that boon. And as to xenos not having their day, last time I checked Necrons, Tau, and Eldar are doing great. Deamons are doing fine. CSM is ok. Orks have yet to recieve love, Dark eldar the same, though you do have that super heavy barge I think (I think its a super heavy, I may certainly be wrong) there are two FW dark eldar skimmers. And I would have no problem playing against a revenant. I probably would lose, oh well. I'll still have fun. I believe I can find a way to kill it and I'll keep trying. You may be right, if I faced it every time. Till that happens I won't know, but I will try and have a good time regardless and I think I would. New codexs and releases seem to be evening things out. Nids are not as bad as first claimed, though they are no top teir army for sure and GW could have done better on them.

    6. these are the DE guys I was talking about http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Dark_Eldar

      The tantalus is I think a SH, though i can't find the rules so again may be wrong. Either way they look damn sweet. Not saying you should or have to use them either, just that you have something else out there other than a revenant.

    7. Neither is a superheavy both are cool models with good rules. Neither have strength D. Tantalus has armor 12 with 4 hp, basically just a double raider. The other tank has a cool haywire gun, but isn't really any better than a ravager, though because of the haywire may help out against super heavies, but really isn't as good as D. I don't mean to always sound like Debbie Downer, but I dropped out of the game six years ago because they lured me in with these cool dark eldar in their box set at time, and then really didn't support them all that much afterwards. I got back into the game, much like your ultramarine friend, about a year ago, but then codex eldar dropped and every comparable unit in that codex is just flat better than mine. For evidence of this, just compare their fliers. I got over the eldar slap in the face and then escalation dropped, and with that my glass hammer army became just glass without a comparable hammer. The only saving grace is fortifications with void shields, which still steams me up because DE are a raiding force and would NEVER have fixed fortifications.


    8. Thanks, I could not remember if the big one was a SH. The haywire could do some nasty on a SH. DE have always been a hard army, I picked them up when the new codex dropped as well. I love them but damn even then they were not easy to play. I can see where you are coming from and understand the frustration. All I can really say is wait, at least with how fast things are going DE are not far off and your flyers should get the need boost they need. Does not really help they were the big test bed for earyl flier rules before death from the skies.

      Here is what I will say in regards to escalation. Very few people I know, nor tournaments, are tryign to argue when it comes to gaming that you HAVe to face them. Sure you can make the argument that they are legal and you can't refuse. Thats asshatery. If he didn't bring an alternate list thats his problem not yours. Now I personally am ok with it, but at the same time i'm not brining my titan to the club every weekend. So don't play with escalation if it really bothers you, its a fair thing especially with the DE army on its own. I think you could work out tactics against most SH (barring titans), three dark lance ravagers are darn good. I think the bomber is an option to take another look at, will take some serious play testing but it could help a lot. Yeah I'm with you on fortifications for DE, its not their thing but they do occaisonally fight in defence. Idk you could model it up like a grav vehicle, something they brought with them on a raid, but can't move when it activates the shield. Thats a way to look at rather than a static gothic structure

    9. A stationary vehicle is an excellent idea and does fit the fluff nicely. In fact I think Forgeworld could make a great model, a superheavy even, that is based on the concept of a large skimmer that has to set down to focus all of its energy on generating the shield. Brilliant. I can already think of a few ways to modify a raider along those lines.


    10. Also just a little thing to add, GW is curently only making 12.5% profits, so the claim that they are making 100% profit on their plastic production is absolutely false. they are making a decent profit, but realistically their margins are not large, and certainly not large enough to support the claim that they are gouging

    11. I can't speak to what they deal with in other areas of overhead (for all I know its company policy to give everyone a paid month long vactaion (they are European afterall)). All I can speak to is what it costs to run plastic through the molds to create the product, taking dollars worth of raw material and turning it into something they sell for $50 to $100. If they can't make more the 12.5% on that kind of margin, they are doing something SEVERLY wrong. Another reason I know they are gouging, I had a boxed land raider from when it was initially released with the price tag still on it. I bought it around 2008 and it was $50. Same model from the same damn mold, so they didn't pay anybody else to sculpt it, is retailing for $65 dollars today, which I'm pretty damn sure is MUCH greater than the inflation since 2008. If they are only at 12.5% profit, taking in not just that but all the liscensing from video games etc., those executives are just lining their pockets.


    12. See there you go, heck your already making your own models, not much more you have to do. You could kit bash in a wrack or even a pain engine, the one that has the disk thing. Chain a bunch of dead bodies to it and throw a Heamonculi on it. It operates off of the pain and suffering of those chained to it, powering the energy field.

      The problem is that interest is not the only thing to consider. Sure they do not have a new mold for that kit, but you have to look at the whole. The models that sell have to support the models that don't. The money is spent, the have to have stock, even of items that do not sell well. The remaining line has to support everything. In addition other costs come in to play other than inflation, also the land raider has been $50 for longer than 2008, It was released in 2000. The inflation rate since that time is 36.3%. If adjusted for inflation, the $50 price tag should be $68.17.

      Your making an assumption that they are making that much off of licensing, where is the data to support that? How much are their CEOs getting paid? From what I have seen they are generally paid on the low end of what most CEOs in comparable buisnessess are being paid.

      And understand that I am not expecting to just agree with me. Thank you for this discussion, I enjoy being able to discuss these issues that polarize so many in a manner that is respectful of each sides views. The price increases are extremely frustrating at times and they certainly do increase some things far more than simple inflation, but that does not equal gouging, at least in my opinion, as there are other costs that have to be covered and still make a profit. Thats the only way new models are designed and made.

    13. "Now everyone that's unhappy wants to voice their concerns and feels entitled to changes to make them happy."
      - yea that is how the market works. deal with it. you have to give the customer what they want or you go out of business. What the fuck kind of shitty world do you want to live in where companies should not feel beholden to the wants of the consumer?

  2. When you said that "Since never have we had codex's that included formations" you are partly wrong. WHFB 6thg ed Army books allowed you to change the army based on a fluff choice, for instance 6th ed skaven had the option to have either a moulder, skyre, pestilence of Essin army (all major skaven clans) that altered what you could take in the list. Same with 6th ed Orcs and Goblins. GW has had these options back in older army books so why should they be sold separately for extra cost now?

    1. That is partially true, though I will my admit my knowledge of fantasy is limited. I should have said in my 40k experience this has not been the case. They have had supplements for a long time. Codex catachan comes to mind, it was based off the main IG book, but you still had to buy the catachan book to use it. Then there was the whole armagedon book, with special armies and rules, another supplement outside of a codex. What is going on now is more extensive than done perviously, but no different than the old white dwarf rules or other supplements, where you still had to buy the white dwarf to get access too. Only in rare cases have armies had anything resembling the new formations. I also don't mind having new units or models added through dataslates.

      The counter point though is why shouldn't they charge for their IP. No one is forced into it. Most current codex's have done a very good job of giving you ways to play armies, including fluffy ones, without needing the supplements. They add more if that is what you are looking for. If not you don't need it. It is a high paced release schedule, and will naturally anger some people, but is it any worse waiting ages for armies to recieve any love. Even if it is only a dataslate, you at least are getting something for your army that is new, allows you to play differently, and just an option.

      There is fine line between including content that should be in a codex, to content that is optional. The issue is getting people to agree where that line is, it seems many right now want a lot more than I think is reasonably expected to be included in a base army book.

      Would you rather have very basic rules to allow all fluffy options, but fall short because they cannot fit everything in one book? Or specialized codex's and supplements that allow you to play the army you want, and another for someone to play the one they want. Personally I like the more focused approach.

    2. Wasnt codex catachan free to download? or am i miss remembering that. And i think Armageddon is ok because it was a global campaign, it was a one off event that wasn't regular and they stopped releasing supplements for golbal campaigns after the storm of chaos, the fall of thingy (cant remember the name of the campaign where the vostarins were introduced) and the Nemesis Crown didn't have rules supplements, all the lore for those campaigns were released on GWs website on in WD.

      Remember that there is no limit to how big a codex/army book can be. IF GW put all the Data Slates/ formation rules into a codex then 1) i would be ok with paying 100 dollars for it (NZD) and 2) People would like GW more because all the rules for a army could be found in that one book (like they used to be), and there would be no need to constantly check the BL website for new rules for your army

    3. I don't remember if it was, I remeber it being a hard back you had to buy. But it has been a while I will grant you that.

      Well there is a limit in terms of devoting staff time to rules writing, editing, playtesting(though limited). There are costs to writing the books, and publishing them, digital is cheaper and easier. While I agree that I would be okay if they included everything, I like optional content as well, and not everyone wants pay that price. Nothing released invalidates current rules either or makes your amy unplayable without it. You can run a standard army as is, some will do better than others and that is just the nature of this game unfortunately.

    4. The Catachan supplement had to be purchased, just like all supplements that came out at the time like dogs of war and craftworld eldar and so on.

  3. I said this elsewhere but here is my take on that DLC argument:

    "I do not agree that what GW does is anything like DLC.

    Remember back in the day where games had expansions? Like Age of Empires and Civilization? That is exactly what GW is doing. Added new options to expand your game play. New game types, new units and new rules to shake up how the game works. Of course this costs money but they are expansions. Not purchasable upgrades that people have to put up with. With DLC people cant say no to someone else using it, but with expansions you choose what expansions before the game begins. This is exactly what 40K does.

    I think its a good thing. But it is definitely not buying an advantage over someone else.

    Video games and Wargaming are a bit too different to really compare them in many ways. Wargaming is a hobby, and all hobbies cost frequent money to continue."

    As to the complaining I dont understand why people continue to pay for something they hate. Even if they hate the company and not the product. Its like saying they hate Nike for using slave labor to make shoes but they love the shoes so much and keep buying it. It annoys the hell out of me haha.

    Nice post.

  4. I know this is going back a bit, but there's been a flurry of posts since I read the blog.

    @Servicious - in your calculations you seem to have forgotten one important factor, your time, how much time did it take you to make the molds and make the models? At at least £6.31 per hour how much extra does that add?

    Also, the model costs need to cover a lot of things, off the top of my head that includes the retail shops (lease, wages, gas, electric, water, local business tax and general maintenance) plus head office, including admin, legal, management, R&D, model makers, storemen, drivers and there vans ( as above plus insurances and pension contributions.) I'm sure there is more that can be added to the list. So all that pure profit quite quickly disappears.

  5. I have no prob with Companies making money, I am a capitalist. That GW is doing its best to push the hobby/story side of the maket is their choice as well, that it has made a game that for me is not worth hauling all my gear to the game location is after years of playing quite sad. I had great hopes for 6th. have the Hard Bound book bought early.. found out after reading that tactics was now very secondary to LUCK in the game.

    As far as GW being unkind to players there have been exemptions.
    Codex Dark Eldar was free (3rd ed) due to the printed one being so bad that it was unplayable if one wished to have any real chance of winning,

    Grey Knights free codex came out for a short time too (I think) but was smaller than full codex

    Mini-Dex's used to be in white dwarf

    Armored Companies / Armored Battle group was free.. of course they are both sort are no longer usable .. being glanced to death does not make for a fun game even if the codex was still "legal"

    But over all the Fluff has become of more value (books etc) then the game, so I do not expect much to change. Its still great fluff (if not consistent) and I like a good deal of it, but the "game" is more a reason to show off pretty models and paint jobs now.. than a game where tactics and thought are the tools of the trade.

  6. oops, I forgot 3rd ed. had a codex for every major faction IN THE BOX! true they were smaller then the one you could buy with less stuff but at least you had an IDEA of what you opponents army was with out having to BUY a codex for an army you did not play....

    1. BRB has stats for most armies and weapons, natually some have changed due to releases, but you can get an idea of the capability and units there. And Idk about you, but generally I let someone read/borrow my codex if they want an idea of what my army has. I have yet to encounter someone who minds me looking through theirs in the same way. You don't need to be an expert in every codex, borrow a buddies, the rest come from playing and finding out the hard way.

      The game has expanded massively since that time. I would much rather have my own codex that is focussed on the fluff and rules of my army than a dull, minimalist everyone dex.

      There is no reason for it to be free, other than people wanting it to be. They have every right to sell it at cost, and you have every right not to buy it. There are other games out there with free rules if that is what you want.

      I still find tactics to be more important than luck, I have won and lost most games on my/opponents good or bad decisions than dice rolls. We play with dice, its all luck in that respect

    2. I respectfully disagree on the quata of luck now in the game vs tactics.

      As far as lend me the book 'mate.. some people are not able to ascertain the meaning of what are often complex or poorly written (heck the rules boys did not do so back in the day on the phone! ) rules in a codex in a few minutes of skimming that you can is laudable but not always the norm.

      But as Adam Smith pointed out the invisible hand is always right .. it has moved me to like the idea of the game but no the practice there of.

    3. and thats your call.

      I still have fun every time I play.

      You won't be expert upon first read, play against that army and you'll find out what it can do.

    4. As a former SFB player I have seen Exacting rules, and as a 40k player i have seen fun(ish) rules. I would have kept playing ** and buying ** had GW made something between SFB and 6th ed (role for every thing.. and all games are really capture the flag with different names..)

      But glad you still like it. Maybe 7th will be a balanced game instead of a story "narrative" based one.

    5. Ah but I like narrative. I love the fluff of this game so that is what keeps me in it, not streamlined rule systems. Though I do hope 7th or whatever its called cleans up their mistakes. Their lack of FAQing is frustrating as their are many issues that could be resolved with that, if the new edition comes down to a giant FAQ with some rules clean up, while keeping the focus more on narrative play, I will be very happy.

  7. Well then good luck :) (oh your article on the Knight was great) but I will wait next time before buying an overpriced picture book with some rules stuck in it.

    1. Yeah *sigh* it could use more (Though I love pictures!). I am hoping against all hope that GW will just update the digital rule book when they add more knights, but I should be realistic, it'll be ten dollars or something :(, though with any luck they'll be in a white dwarf.

  8. I feel like GW would benefit from creating starter sets for new players to get them more involved. For example, currently it costs ~£150 for a bare-bones IG army ( 2 troops 1 HQ), a rulebook and codex (excluding paints, glue, equipment etc.). This means that it's a huge investment to just try the hobby. It would get a lot more people involved if they could sell the very basics to start (as above) for maybe £100, but exclude the fluff and hobby books that you would otherwise get. If they used the smaller, soft-backed books, they could get an even larger profit. This would help the hobby gain more popularity and make it more accessable, rather than shelling out £50 to just find out the rules.

    Anyway, loved the post,