Sunday, February 26, 2017

8th Edition: Hopes and Dreams

While still waiting for the Gathering Storm Book III to come out, I have been thinking on the rumored new edition and what I hope to see.  This isn't based on any inside knowledge, just on the rumors that have been coming out and some general hopes I have for guard as well for the next codex, however far away it is.
Obviously the main rumor that keeps coming up is streamlined.  And I really hope this is true, though not as streamlined as AoS.  I think a full simplification to AoS type rules is unlikely, especially given the recent releases.  That being said, GW has long use Fantasy to test rules changes.  So what can we expect to be ported over?  One posiblity is a nerf to summoning.  AoS allows summoning but the models must be paid for pts wise.  Basically you can summon, but must set aside pts for that.  You still can summon whatever you want, as long as you have pts available.

I like this, as 7th Edition has certainly turned into the Free edition, so tamping down on armies bringing in all the free stuff is certainly welcome.  This is not limited to summoning, though it is one of the worst offenders, so I'm not sure how it will be addressed for the detachments and formations that give you free stuff, though a Pts tax on these detachments and formations would go some way to mitigating it.  The simple truth is that for many competitive armies, they may be playing an 1850 list, but at the end of the day their armies can be well over 2000pts, and no I don't want free stuff for guard as well, as I would rather see this aspect of the game just go away.

The psychic phase is probably going to get a new look, though not sure how it will look on the other side.  Most likely just a simplification of how it works, reducing steps and other methods to clean up the phase.  Also will very likely see a consolidation of special rules, as there are a lot the work very similarly to others and can simply be consolidated.

One thing I would definitely like to see is GW fixing sniper weapons, mainly by giving pinning back, and the same for barrage weapons. In addition, would love to see a way for sniper weapons to one shot multi-wound models, because thats fluffy.  Don't care how many wounds you have, when your brain exits your head, you generally die.  I seriously doubt this last part will actually happen, its wish, but one can hope.  Mechanically, a wound roll of 6 could cause D3 wounds, this would give a lucky sniper shot a chance to take a multi wound character down, but not kill the really tough MCs or other characters and wouldn't be too powerful.  Basically borrowing from the vindicare but keeping the result random.

Will be interesting to see what else will happen in 8th, but in short I expect some mitigation of all the free stuff, consolidation of psychic phase and special rules, and really hoping sniper and barrage get pinning back.

Taking a longer look, as who knows when the next guard book will come, there as some things I would like to see for IG.  We know that Kell is dead (via Abby) and Creed is in a tesseract vault, so they are gone.  Really I would like to see the different guard armies represented in the rules via special detachments that the other armies get.  I would love to have a catachan army that played like catachans in the fluff.  Same for many of the others that have their tics and traits that make them unique.  Guard really lacks diversity and flexibility.  The Cadian Battle Group was an attempt at this, but is mostly a failure due to really only working at 2500pts and up, outside of going the Armored company route.

I don't think guard needs new units, we are pretty full up, and have quite a bit of choice.  Though the basilisk kit is due for a redo as it's quite old, and who knows, might get a return of the forgeworld basilisk variants.  With the loss of Creed and Kell, some new special characters to replace them would be nice, and god does straken need a pts reduction, why he costs more than 2 CCS I'll never know, as he is not that great.

With the loss of Cadia, the question also becomes who will become the guard poster child?  Steel legion is definitely a possibility, Catachans as well, though the kits are old, one hesitation I have is that whatever new kits they do, it'll be a significant price increase, so would much rather it be a new style of guard rather than a redo of the current kits.  There is a possibility of a FW army going plastic, though that I see as unlikely, as Death Korps shares some similarity in looks to steel legion, and elysians with Cadian's.  Not look a likes, but similar enough that I doubt they will do it.  Happy to be wrong though.

What I would also love to see is GW seriously re-look Militarum Tempestus.  It was a quick book to capitalize on the new models.  Though I will give them credit, for what was obviously a quick job, they got quite close to getting the army right.  I'll buy that not every army needs to be perfectly balanced, but I don't buy that they have to suck either.  What this army suffers from is lack of AA, the exclusion of the vendetta was a silly decision and simply adding it back would go a long way to helping it out.  Yes you can ally vendettas in, but you can't put your scions in them during deployment as Militarum Tempestus and Astra Militarum are different factions.  You can ally an MT platoon in sure, but then you have to keep track which book they are from as they have completely different orders and cannot give them to each other.  I have enough book keeping as it is.

The other thing is giving them a company command squad, giving them access to senior officer for more orders, which is really their only trick and officers only giving one a turn is very limited.  A special character or two would be nice, as well as relics/heirlooms, they are even mentioned in the fluff of the MT book, but apparently they forgot them.  The two formations they have are quite good and I'll give GW that, but a unique detachment or two for them would give them some more options.  They don't need a lot really, just enough so they can at least answer some of the threats they face.  A way to reduce opponents cover would also be nice, even if its just something like an omnispex from skitarri.  There are a lot of units that can jink or get really good cover saves and Tempestus has no answer to this.

I'm looking forward to 8th edition and the someday new guard codex and probably never new Tempestus codex.  Let me know what you would like to see in the new edition and what you would like to see in the next guard codex.

Cadia Stands!


  1. In terms of general rules which would apply to the IG, I would love something that makes Leman Russ with ordnance weapons and side sponsons worth taking again.

    I am tired of sponsons being useless every other iteration of the IG Codex. I loved the lumbering behemoth rule and the Heavy vehicle type certainly does not stand the comparison.

    That would go a long way into making some of the LR variants worthwhile again.

    Aside from that, I think GW needs to tone down the detachment/formation side of things or at least make their power consistent across the board. Personally, I would get rid of them entirely but that's just me but at least I would stop using them as a stopgap measure and rewrite some armies from the bottom up (while Chaos Legions was good it did little to address some issues with the codex)

    1. Thats only two of the leman russ variants though, the vanquisher, exterminator, eradicator, executioner, and punisher are all unaffected as they do not have ordnance. Ordnance is minor in my opinion, and sponsons are point sinks, the standard russ and demolisher need pts reductions mainly.

      On formations/detachments, they are one of the few ways to play fluffy armies. They have problems when their bonuses are so good, but the majority are fine. The days of only having standard old force org are simply over. How else can different guard regiments be represented with only the old org? A 400 pg codex is an option I guess with literally different army list for every type and changing their battlefield role.

  2. A few things I'd like to see in the new IG codex are ogryns getting a point reduction and rough riders getting their lances on every charge, not just the first, along with hit and run. Something along the lines of chapter tactics would be good, andmake representing the different armies a lot easier.

    As for the MT, I really hope they do get a new codex, with options for heavy weapons and proper company command squads.

    As for creed, I hope the do replace him, as he's the main man in my primary army, and stracken defiantly needs a points reduction.

    1. Yeah, Ogryns could use a bit of a reduction, though i hate on them, they are still quite resilient, but transportation is their main issue. Bullgryns are quite good on the other hand, though wish they could take something more than power mauls.

      I don't think MT should get heavy weapons, as its not really true to their character. I think infiltrate is something they should have, would mitigate the need for heavy weapons. A few more cool special weapons would be awesome, like a special hot shot lasgun.

      I have no idea why they decided that straken needed to be a 130pt UPGRADE! to the squad.

  3. regarding Creed, I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of him yet. my personal theory is that they're planning on a time jump for 8th edition. even just a few hundred years would be nothing for everyone but Guard characters, so Creed'll need a way to avoid aging. a holiday in a tesseract vault would do it

    1. Oh, they are saving him for something, that is for sure. I bet we will have the next codex without him, and the one after that might see him come back. No Kell sadly.

  4. I'd like to see the Orders even more fleshed out, and for different Regiments getting their own orders. Cadians continue to be the "Diciplined" orders, but maybe with some revenge-associated orders as well, like a "For Cadia" order that lets you shoot-and-assault despite using rapid-fire weapons.

    I'd like another tank commander to compliment pask. This one instead of being a better shooter could give his own set of orders. I'm thinking "Flush them out!" (Grants ignore cover to the commander if the ordered tanks successfully wounds an enemy), "Follow My Tracers!" (Twin links the ordered-tanks if the commander lands a successful to-hit roll on a target), and "Hammer it to pieces!" (The Commander and all ordered tanks that attack a given unit do so at -1 AV/Toughness for each previous hit scored against the target that turn, representing each hit further weakening the opponent's armor).

    Note that I say "Ordered Tanks" because I'd like to see Koruv's Aquila in the main book as well as all the major formations. I'd like to see the Cadian formation requirements reduced where possible, and finally I'd like a cost reduction for Ogryns.

    1. The only problem I could see with the specific orders for regiments would be how quickly that would complicate orders. I think a traitor legions type supplement could give you detachment benefits that represent adequately.

      Tanks just need better orders, and to be able issue them to other squadrons. Strike and shroud is one use only, and the flat out order is situational, and the split fire is only useful some of the time. Kurovs aquila prob won't go anywhere, and as long as you don't take any non cadian SCs you can use it.

    2. I like orders and want them to be fleshed out as much as possible, because they emphasize the guard's use of teamwork to overcome their enemy's individual skill.

      As for tank orders, maybe all tank commanders should get these orders? Some extra ones for you:

      "Full Throttle": Same as before, but now you can tank shock in the shooting phase. Turn your Emp's Fist into a holy battering ram!

      "Light them Up!": Ordered Tanks get pinning.

      "Field Repairs": Grants one tank "it will not die" for one turn if successful. This tank may not fire it's main armament during the shooting phase.

  5. Here's what I want out of the Guard in 8th edition:
    Orders: "Forwards for the Emperor" - Change from shoot-and-run to shoot-and-run/assault. Affix those bayonets!
    Company Command Squad: Commander buys carapace and camo at the same price as the Vets. Unique Commanders can buy at least the camo.
    Straken: Remove plasma pistol for bolt pistol, lower cost by 15 points.
    Regimental Advisers: Come with a laspistol by default.
    Harker: Lower the cost by about 15 points.
    Psykers in general: pick your powers to suit your army instead of rolling randomly.
    Tempestus Scions: Merge their codex with the AM, including their orders. Remove Deep Strike from the base model, reducing their base point cost, and making it an upgrade.
    Taurox: Make both variants fast vehicles.
    Ogryns/Bullgryns: Lower the cost by about 10 points.
    Rough Riders: Give them access to carapace, +1 Toughness like bikers. Remove One-use-only from the Hunting Lance, but it's only AP3 on the first round of Assault, AP4 afterwards. Add Furious Charge.
    Leman Russ Eradicator: Rear armour 11.
    Vendetta: Put lascannons in the kit for the wings. Lower the cost by about 10 points.
    Hyrdas: Add Interceptor, increase cost by 10 to 15 points.
    Punisher Cannon: Make AP6.
    Basilisk: Lower the cost by 25 points.
    Deathstrike: D3 wound vs Monstrous creatures.
    Nork: Make an independent character who can Look-Out-Sir! any character within 6". This way he stays at Toughness 5.
    Plasma Pistol: Change from 15 points to 10.
    Storm Eagle Rockets: AP3
    Platoon Standard: Give Regimental Standard's effect.
    Regimental Standard: Also gives Stubborn.
    Heirlooms (Except Benediction): Decrease costs by 20-30%.
    Grenades: Bring back grenade spam in melee.

  6. Hit and run on rough riders, +1 toughness and carapace armour upgrade.
    Creed comes back, cadia stays the main poster army
    add in catachan devils to elite section (infiltrating, move through cover, camo cloaks)
    make harker an upgrade for the above elite squad and give him junior office orders adjust points downward
    Make nork deddog cheaper and more akin to Celestine guards w/o resurrection
    dual kit for basilisk with another artillery variant such as medusa
    make the deathstrike into a single shot str D weapon, like it should be.

    But in general fix flyers, fix the psychic phase, lower cost for guard so the cadian detachment isn't so unwieldy. adjust cost on power wpns and fist to be more relevant to guard vs marine usage.

    and for a cool customization army a necromunda ganger box set that doubles as a penial legion box set with a different role than conscripts. Maybe bring colonel schaeffer back however this entire unit isn't needed for guard.

    1. Yeah, the fact that rough riders don't get a toughness bonus and bikes do is pretty stupid.

      I think most of the differening guard regiments could be solved with a traitor legions style supplement. Take a catachan army and infantry can infiltrate and get camo cloaks, but you are limited on vehicles you can take. Things like that rather than creating whole new units, though i want penal legion back. And all the special characters need significant pts reductions.