Friday, January 10, 2014

Imperial Guard Codex: What do You Want?

So today I want to here what you all think.  The new codex is coming and I want to know: What do you want to see & What do you think we will see?  Two very different questions.  I myself want to see some points reductions on certain units like Storm Troopers and Ogryns and Armored Sentinels and probably Commissars.  Doctrines need a little reduction by a few points and so do sponson weapons, for whatever reason we have some of the most expensive ones.   And Special characters, they are really expensive in most cases for what you get, especially since most are upgrades so you are also paying for the model you didn't bring

Now there is more than just playing with points.  I really would like to see sentinels get some rules or options boost, they lack a little edge to them and this can be seen when compared to other walkers.  The other one that needs some tending to is the Leman Russ, it has some issues with being just heavy and needs a few tweaks.  Its not bad as is, but it lacks an edge when compared to other MBTs.  Also speaking of vehicles, squadron special rules or upgrades would be an amazing thing.  A one use ability or wargear option to give the group that little edge, since IG have squadrons across the board, this would encourage squadrons being taken over single models.  Orders could use some tweaking and I would love to see more special orders, I am also excited to see how they treat IG "relics", hopefully have some special vox caster and other buff wargear.  I really hope for updates to standards, the regimental one is ok, but there is no reason to take the platoon one (How many times has one wound for your PCS really made the difference).  I WANT A SALAMANDER!!!! 

Now what will we get? Most likely orders will be changed to some degree and SCs will get reworked but probably not much based on how the SM codex turned out.  A salamander is not looking too likely, as GW is into bigger things right now.  A new flyer is rumored to be coming (we needed one?), one that will be meh and overcosted so we will stick with vendettas like we always have.  Some sort of CTs for different regiments is highly likely and maybe a reworking of the old doctrine system into this (Oh please god let me be able to make my own).  Otherwise I don't see a huge revolutionary codex coming, more of a points and rules tweak to bring in line with 6th and a large plastic line based on recent releases and the new models getting put out. 

So what do you want?  What do you think will actually happen?  My ears are open



  1. I am happy as long as i get to make a custom regiment that effects the rules and keep orders (as its a huge part of the idea behind my army). And vox casters to change. I have never heard of a radio with the same range as a pistol haha. But thats about it really.

  2. As for the wishlisting, a Salamander would be the top of the list, just for fun and CC awesomeness.
    To build a combi kit Hydra/Salamander would make a lot of sense, considering they added anti air to most new codices, and IG already has a unit entry to fill that gap, but only a FW model.
    Stormtroopers need a price reduction, doctrines should be cheaper, and some of the codex corpses like Ogryns and Sentinels should be made more useful or cheaper to add variety.
    Weapon upgrades are quite expensive, with only bs3 many things are simply not reliable enough to take them.
    The orders and vox system could change, fluff-wise vox casters are there to boost the range of orders, considering every soldier/sergeant has got micro-beads for clear short-range communication.
    Except for tweaking, something else that would be really useful, is some stuff to counter those pesky cover-ignoring Tau, everyone else has armour or invul against them.
    A weapon designed to take down monstrous creatures would be useful too.
    It's ridiculous how you can lob an excessive amount of large-caliber explosives at the newest flavor of MC and don't do ANYTHING beside 1 or 2 wounds (2+ armor 3+ invul, yay...), whereas a regular tank would have exploded 5 times over.

    What I expect...a points reduction for many many units (except for vendetta), as it's the current way of new codices to simply allow you to field (and thus buy) more.
    Previously rarely used units will benefit even more from this, the last releases did that too.
    The vendetta could be boosted to ~150-170p, as all other AV12 fliers are there (or above), and ~120p are only AV10/11.
    The new flier will probably be AV10/11 too, non-hover, but maybe vector dancer/strafing run, and armed with less lazz0r overkill, rather autocannons and such. I personally think something like a thunderbolt.
    The veterans, if the rumors about the doctrine boxes are true, will be considerably cheaper, as currently few people use f.e. the carapace vets.
    I would personally use carapace a lot, as they would double the life expectancy (most standard weapons are AP5), but not having appropriate models is a bummer, and the points aren't invested easily.
    As for SC, we could see quite some rotation. Bastonne for example is rarely used at all and doesn't have a model. Restricting them to certain regiments, well, no one except vanilla SM went that way, I don't think it will happen.
    In case of the new big tank, I'm very skeptical, either it's a near-superheavy that will ignore/weaken the damage chart, or it will be just a more expensive Leman Russ that blows up all the same.
    It will nonetheless be armed to the teeth, so people buy it. Think of Centurions: Very expensive, hard-hitting, but can't handle return fire significantly better than their predecessors.
    The designers don't seem to notice the considerable superiority of MCs compared to vehicles, and accordingly won't change their current designs.
    Cranking up the armor value won't be a real option, as the Leman Russ is already near the maximum, just like the terminators before the centurions.
    Except for this, the usual stuff, an individual set of warlord traits, some relics, and some miscellanous wargear options beside vox.
    Probably the distinction between regular sergeants and veteran sergeants (like SM, DA, Tau, Eldar,...).
    Regiment tactics/doctrines would be cool, but I'm not as sure about that as many others are.

    All in all there will be enough tweaks to keep us occupied, but with so many options (platoon/orders/doctrines/regiments) it's very hard to guess which parts of the IG structure will be changed and which won't.
    Points inflation is nearly certain (EVERY codex did that), except for that...we'll just have to wait.
    Considering the tyranid rumors, the first specific rules/pics rumors could start by the end of the month...

    1. Im on the fence when it comes to regiments, but I really do see them doing regiments like SM chapter tactics, ie you have cadian CTs and can only use Cadian SCs. Most haven't gone that way i will admit so it could really go both ways, but it is something I am expecting to happen.

      That is the real issue, this edition is all about MCs and a IG, we don't have any and suffer from that fact. Now we have plenty of other things that are great.

      Well I use carapace vets all the time and I love them, a little green stuff and you have carapace armor. But a new kit is something I am really excited about and I can't wait to buy 6 of them

  3. What I would like to see
    - Cheaper Stormtroopers, Commisars
    - Vendetta more expensive (but not Valkyrie). I want dilemma :)
    - or Vulture in basic codex (not gonna happen, I know)
    - Vox working like vox = can issue orders to unit with vox
    - some normal, human snipers that are meaningful
    - LR has back something like Lumbering Behemoth
    - Reshuffle characters. Some cheaper, some replaced (Bastonne)
    - Drop Rough Riders. They are not good and I must confess, doesnt fit into my fluff :)

    What we will see...?
    Dont know :) I hope not some big disappointment.

    1. In case of snipers, as long as you don't use the official models the ratlings can be meaningful human snipers.
      10p for infiltrating BS4 camo cloak snipers is a bargain, and the loss of toughness the only difference to "real" human troops.

      In my case, I'd simply use Catachans to build snipers.
      Seriously, those walk around the battlefield in underwear instead of light armor, no wonder they would die more easily.

      As for the rest, I agree.
      The rough riders, like many other choices, are outdated relics, but can occasionally be useful too.
      There seem to be a lot of those, so we'll see which ones will carry on.
      Still lots of metal models left, while other armies switched to Failcast and further to plastic.

  4. I think some obvious changes will include:
    Increase points cost of the Vendetta. Wouldn't be surprised if they go as high as 180, but am hoping for no more than 150.

    Leman Russ being able to fire all weapons and dropping to 140 base. Possibly squadron members being able to act independently.

    Stormtroopers to drop in points cost. Possible change to hell gunstats, and perhaps access to grav weapons.

    Vets going up in cost to 8 points each. Maybe access to grav weapons.

    Ogryns will still be bad no matter what is done to them..

    Hell hounds to drop to around 100 points base.

    I don't think sentinals will change much. Love an option to upgrade BS to 4, but not going to happen.

    I can see changes to heavy weapon teams... Possibly to artillery with 2 crew. That would certainly make them more viable than now.

    1. Ok really like that last idea, heavy weapons to artillery. Only problem is artillery is immobile. But that is easily fixed with a special rule

    2. I do not see an increase for Vet squads as something on the table. With the reduction of SM tactical squads, I figure they will stay the same. A reduction would be awesome, but that is all wishful thinking.

      The rest of it would be awesome!

  5. Well, let me see, what I would like and the chances of them happening:

    1. As has been mentioned, would like to see the return of Lumbering Behemoth in some fashion – Quite possible.

    2. While on the subject of tanks, sponsons to be a little cheaper. The low BS makes them too expensive – unlikely though.

    3. Would love to see some form of tank upgrade to improve BS by 1, Pask is nice, but too expensive for what he does – They have it for the Shadowsword, but that is the only LoW that has the option, so I don’t expect it to be there.

    4. Slight increase in Vendetta cost would be nice. Why do I want the price to go up? Sick of the crap I get for it  - Almost certainly going to happen.

    5. Vulture in the main dex (I just bought two, so want to be able to field them without having to ask) – almost certainly not going to happen though.

    6. As has also been mentioned previously, introduction of army-wide doctrines (a la Space Marines) - Quite likely. Perhaps not all in the main dex, but expect to see them in supplements.

    7. This could quite possibly lead to Cadian main force having Steel Legion as allies for example (as you can with Tau) – most likely.

    8. Rough Riders to get a tweak – Perhaps it is wishful thinking, but I expect this to happen as well as new models to come out for them. Just look at what they did to the rules for the Death Riders in the DKoK Seige list. You can take them in a similar fashion to infantry units (Command squad and then rough rider squads).

    9. Hydra Platform – bit of a dark horse (darn it, I should have used that metaphor in the previous point) that can be taken in single units – Mmmm, perhaps. I only mention this one because FW stopped making them a while ago and told me they were not going to be putting them up again as far back as a year ago (I wanted the platforms rather than the tanks as they were cheaper and had interceptor and skyfire so I wrote to FW as they had dropped off their site).

    10. Supplements to make Armoured Battle Groups a possibility – I reckon that is almost certainly going to happen, probably in a supplement.

    11. A flier as a dedicated transport – 30/70 (Maybe an Elysian-type supplement).

    12. A fighter plane – well, they’ve given all the other armies one, why not IG. Yes, they have plenty of choices via FW, but I still expect to see one in the main dex.

    Overall though, looking forward to it. I love my IG and want the flexibility to have either a full on horde army right down to a specialised tank or airbourne assault list. Guess we’ll see in the next few months (hopefully).

  6. I think most people are in agreement with most of the points issues, most will go down, 'detts will go up. Ogryns and stormtrooper are defiantly something that need a drop and options. I think Regimental tactics, a la SM CT's, will be in. I know that not all codex's did this but SM and IG are different from the rest and have very strong identities.

    We'll see what happens, but so far I cant see anything too bad.

  7. Forgot to mention the rough riders, I like these, but they need the lances changed so that they can be used every charge, not just the first one. with that, points drops and stat increases to take account of the actual horses that they ride, after all a horse is a lot tougher and stronger than a man.

  8. I would really, really like an update with storm troopers. Point reduction and maybe some tweak of the rules, I'm very hopeful to hearing a change to them to make them a little scarier to the enemy. I'd also like to see regiment tactics (like everybody else has mentioned), something that gives more options and helps distinguish your army from other IG armies. Along with some minor changes to the leman though I'm looking forward to seeing the new tanks they add, I would like more options for the tanks too, like if they changed the rules for camo netting to add a minor cover save to the tank or something to make tanks BS4. I also want for tanks in a squadron to be able to act independently. More orders also would be nice, possibly ones helping the humble lasgun be of more use or more use in a different way.

    And this won't happen but I think it'd be cool if they made rules for free variations of the lasgun for the entire squad or regiment to choose from, I.E S4 AP- 30" range Assault 1 or S3 AP6 20" range Assault 2, some equally balanced but also add some variation.

    1. Well, as for the lasgun options, they already have "assault 2" lasguns. They're called shotguns, they just look different.
      Making them S4 would be overkill (okay, Tau are overkill too), that would be almost bolter level, though you could spam them in almost indecent numbers.

      The upgraded lasguns are already available, those are even AP3, but sadly only available for stormtroopers.

      Lasguns are okay, with orders they are versatile enough, as they are sync against MC (the flying ones too, that's important), can force the opponent to reroll successful cover saves (2+ cover is annoying), or simply spam the hell out of their guns to drown the enemy in dice.

      The only worthy upgrade would be to replace the standard CC weapon with a laspistol.
      This happened in the current SM codex too, effectively giving you something to shoot (for free) when charging into CC, and changing nothing else.

    2. I think an overcharge/hotshot option for the lasgun would be nice, lets say S4 AP5 Heavy 1, gets hot 30" range. It would be cool and fluffy, but not too powerful either (no FRFSF)

  9. my vote would be autogun upgrade, a couple of points per model, higher s lower ap,

  10. Not really what I want, but I think the IG will lost some units.
    GW will not release rules for models that are not in plastic.

    IG is not like Space Marines who just need to change their color to have a different Chapter Tactics.
    So, as they won't release plastic models for all the IG flavors, we won't have Catachan/Cadian/Steel Legion/etc Doctrines.

    Moreover there will be a lot of units to be disband as GW will not release that much plastic unit.
    For me the release will be:
    - New Big Kit: a Tank or a Mini-Titan
    - Ordnance combi-Kit
    - Hydra
    - Infantery combi-kit to make everything from sniper (to replace ratling) to stormtrooper
    - some named and generic characters but not all

    Drop: Ratling, Ogryn, Psyker Squad, Penal Legion, Rough Rider and some characters.

  11. Let's do some math to see what could be coming and what rather not.
    The previous releases (Nids, SM, Tau) were 7-8 models/units each, 2 of those some previously unseen units, the rest either new kits for old units, or characters.

    The ones that are regularly rumored for the IG:
    -big tank
    -dogfight flier

    The 2 unseen new models would be the big tank and the flier.
    Vets and ordnance would be new kits for current units, that would leave 3-4 kits.
    SM had 3 characters (psyker, captain, chaplain), with all the old metal chars that would leave lots of possibilities.

    The last kit could be the Hydra, as it's in the codex, yet unreleased, and it's flier/antiflyer edition anyway.
    On the other hand, this release would be extremely vehicle heavy, so adding more stuff for footslogger armies wouldn't seem off mark too.

  12. I doubt they will drop that many. Note they have the models so they will be keeping them in the codex, even if they remain metal a while longer. The only units that are being dropped are those that they have no models for. Penal can be argued are represented by IG infantry models, as the only difference is rules and an explosive collar.

    They did receive two new units, though most have been dual kits so it will be interesting to see. Though the hydra already exists so it may be put into a dual kit with a new unit not in the codex yet. I am really hopeing for the salamander

  13. There are only a few things that I would like to see fixed. I would like to see a reduction in points or an improvement in rules on some of the HQs. I always take the normal CCS. They are actually worth their 50 points... with look out sir... you have 7 wounds to go through.

    I would also like to see my Leman Russ tanks be able to fire more things at full BS. I mean I did spend a god awful amount of time pulling weapons off of some of my tanks because of the sheer uselessness of them.

    I enjoyed your FA write up, but I have to say that not much competes with the Vendetta. I was reading somewhere that they will be making that unit cost between 145-150... which seems reasonable. If they would take that and then reduce the Hellhounds or Sentinels in point costs... they may hit the table again.

    Elites are rarely taken with my army. I will run Marbo sometimes just to hear people cry about his abilities (not overpriced at all), but I have a feeling he will leave the main codex and be reintroduced as a supplement. Catachan anyone... As for the other elite choices the ratlings are about the only ones that seem cost effective, especially with all of the MC popping up. Storm troopers are way over priced for what they do. I would want to see at least a 10 point drop before I even started taking them. Psyker Battle squad is a fun unit to play with, but I never expect much out of them. Their abilities are just not as good as they use to be. More of a gimmick than anything else.

    I never have any issues with my troop choices, but I am sure that some stuff will change. I just hope that our troops stay strong. I do have over 200 guardsmen, so I do not mind platoons getting a little stronger.

    My 2 cents... also Grumpy Guardsman, I love this blog. I have been playing IG for about 5 years, and I just stumbled upon this blog! It is awesome!

  14. I just don't understand all the people thinking vendetta should cost around 150 pts. Ffs, it's a stormraven with better guns! It should not cost less than 180 pts.